What do you think about the rainbow flag?

[DJLippy]

Does anyone else get a shudder when they see a rainbow flag outside a venue? Harry the Owl compared it to a Nazi flag and I'm inclined to agree.

I'm Bisexual so I should be thrilled to find all these inclusive spaces but I just feel a stab of anxiety and make a mental note to steer well clear. It's a real physiological reaction not something I can control.

A few years ago I used to love seeing the pride flag outside bars. I guess back then it actually meant something. Now I feel like it's actually a sign of exclusion - that anyone who doesn't believe that twaw is not safe there.

Also it does kind of imply that all the other venues are a threat to the LGBTQI++ people. I actually get a lot less grief being with a woman in a normie bar than I would in a gay bar. What's more its often just random cafes and shops which as far as I am aware have no gay history. Just feels like a cheap virtue signal by straight woke folk.

I'd be interested in hearing from people who are same sex attracted. Do you feel that the flag which used to represent your community been appropriated by male supremacists? Do you self exclude from spaces which fly the rainbow flag?

Lesbians are constantly being thrown under a bus on here.

Jeez you write some rubbish sometimes but this is the worst yet. I see nothing but support for lesbians on this thread. Their right to be same sex-attracted, The defence against men who claim to be lesbians, the support for women who are thrown out of places for declaring themselves lesbian and same sex-attracted, the horror at the cotton ceiling concept. When you say lesbians get “thrown under the bus” here what you mean is no one buys your bullshit arguments.

When you say lesbians get “thrown under the bus” here what you mean is no one buys your bullshit arguments

Precisely. The tactic is to make totally false, unsubstantiated accusations of bigotry and expect grovelling apologies. It is a recurrent theme. It is also a distraction from those who are literally getting lesbians thrown out of places like the National Theatre during pride week. This lobby use spurious accusations of hate speech to silence debate. Justice Knowles made that observation citing Professor Kathleen Stock.

EverardDigby
I'm certainly not knowledgeable about the history but I'm old enough to remember the United Colours of Benetton, their campaign (apart from being a sales pitch) was about racial unity iirc, It wasn't a rainbow but very colourful and I loved their clothes.
Then we had the Rainbow nation for post Apartheid South Africa, which all seemed a symbol of hope and unity. After all God created the rainbow after the great flood and Noah's ark as a sort of symbol of regeneration and new beginnings (and a promise not to flood the world again....)

When it was appropriated by stonewall I don't know. But it's very annoying as children love rainbows, painting rainbows, buying rainbow t shirts etc and they are unwittingly being co-opted. And I find myself looking with suspicion at the parents of a child wearing a rainbow t shirt - are they woke or does the child just like pretty things?

Now I feel like it's actually a sign of exclusion - that anyone who doesn't believe that twaw is not safe there

This!! My local fire and police station have them flying. I feel like it’s letting me know I better keep my mouth shut

Isabelle you said you have been specifically told you must use the toilets at the same time as your trans women colleagues otherwise you could lose your job. I've never heard such rubbish in my life.

Yes trans women have had the legal right to use female facilities in the UK since the GRA in 2004 and this may be written into a policy document at work. You are not going to lose your job if you decide to wait 5 minutes to use the loo as a trans woman being in there makes you so uncomfortable. If this is the biggest problem you have to face at work then you are incredibly lucky.

Some of us have actual hate and discrimination to deal with.

It’s corporate bullshit these days. It means nothing. Everyone gets given them to wear, it doesn’t mean the individual wearing it is nice & accepting & understanding about people who are LGBT, it means they got an email from HR ordering them to wear the new lanyard.

It’s a shame because it used to mean organisations had made an effort, had put in lots of training & support, now anyone can plonk a rainbow on the premises and win woke points

Take sport for example - rainbow laces in football but still in 21st century we have not one openly gay male high level footballer.

Excellent post NonnyMouse1337 Thank you.

I find myself looking with suspicion at the parents of a child wearing a rainbow t shirt - are they woke or does the child just like pretty things?

Oh FFS. The parents may well be (shock horror) gay or else their child just likes pretty things.

Isabelle you said you have been specifically told you must use the toilets at the same time as your trans women colleagues otherwise you could lose your job. I've never heard such rubbish in my life.

Well, you don't have to believe it, but that doesn't make it untrue.

I'm not talking about waiting 5 minutes for the loo, I'd have thought that was pretty obvious. I'm talking about walking in, seeing a transwoman colleague there, and walking out again. It specifically says on our code of conduct that that would be viewed as bullying and will be subject to disciplinary procedures.

If this is the biggest problem you have to face at work then you are incredibly lucky.

I'll remember that next time I'm desperate for the loo but daren't go in case I'm accused of committing a hate crime.

Isabelle you said you have been specifically told you must use the toilets at the same time as your trans women colleagues otherwise you could lose your job. I've never heard such rubbish in my life.

Nice minimisation of a woman’s concerns there, very empathetic.

Yes trans women have had the legal right to use female facilities in the UK since the GRA in 2004 and this may be written into a policy document at work. You are not going to lose your job if you decide to wait 5 minutes to use the loo as a trans woman being in there makes you so uncomfortable. If this is the biggest problem you have to face at work then you are incredibly lucky.

In that case, why couldn’t a transwoman wait for 5 minutes outside the men’s toilets if the presence of a man in there makes them uncomfortable? If you think it’s such a minor issue, why are transwomen trying to make it happen?

Why don’t you think women wanting their own private space and being hated and abused for it is important too?

Nonny great post 👏👏💪

The only rainbows I like are the ones in the sky. There's a huge flag flying outside dds school. Gives me the rage every time I see it because it tells me and my GC thinking daughter are not welcome. Like pp said, it's the tra flag now. It signifies exclusion of those who have the ability of critical analysis and who believe in science not feelz. It's a militant nazi-esque you-must-submit-to-our-way-of-thinking flag. No thanks.

I used to love it and wave it proudly at pride marches. I'm 50 and straight but used to go on gay rights demonstrations back in the 80s with my gay and transgender friends. The flag does seem a bit sinister now though and that is because of TRA encroachment of women's rights and denial of and silencing about basic biology.

LGBT+
What does the + even mean? Is it just about fetishism?

Again everyone is conveniently ignoring that trans have their own flag. A few may use the rainbow (perhaps if they also identify as gay) but most would use the trans flag.

I am struggling to understand all the beef with the rainbow flag but not with the trans flag?

I'll say it again. Rainbow = gay pride

I'll say it again. Rainbow = gay pride

Say it all you like. That doesn't make it true. Repetition does not equal veracity. The Rainbow flag is synonymous with an aggressive, niche lobby who want to take a battering ram to sex segregated spaces and chuck lesbians out of public places unless they meekly submit to authoritarian, self entitled bullying. This agenda is profoundly unpopular because of the antics of its zealous advocates.

If you work in the public sector wearing lanyards and having email signatures stating ‘ally’ status and going on workplace Pride parades under your employer’s banner is all becoming increasingly expected which in itself feels like a way of forcing gender critical people ‘out’ themselves. I also want to know what genuine support for LBG and T people the rainbow-washing provides although I can see it makes a lot of money for the Prides who licence it.

If the rainbow flag = gay pride why couldn’t lesbians march asserting their right to same-sex attraction without being accused of being transphobic? Why couldn’t they march at Gay Pride, and the trans rights activists with the trans flag march on another day?

NotBad exactly. The existence of lesbians peacefully talking about wanting to preserve women-only spaces or even just talking about their own same-sex attraction AT FUCKING PRIDE! (in London) was seen as a threat and an outrage.

That is when the hierarchy in the Pride movement needs to take a long hard look at itself and what it’s now become but no, they doubled down. It’s unbelievable and gives me the absolute rage.

You usually see the trans first with the rainbow (not always vice versa). The rainbow is becoming the LGBTetc flag - so many new groups being added, not all to do with sexuality. It’s not what it was is it? Stonewalls umbrella is so large it must cover most people these days - that just means nothing.

It’s all commercial nonsense - and the ‘inclusive’ assemblies at school - so do they invite in a gay female firefighter or male nurse? No - a drag queen (as in Paisley last week), or in my sons case a trans woman telling them how difficult it is for women in business.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3301033-Get-the-L-Out-Statement-by-the-lesbian-protesters-at-Pride-London

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3630064-Press-photographers-banned-from-pride-because-of-last-year-s-Get-The-L-Out-protest

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3299646-Lesbians-protest-at-London-Pride-getthelout

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3443042-The-misogyny-continues-in-Manchesters-Gay-Village

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3674135-Manchester-pride-usual-8-plus-3-extra?msg_id=89587269#89587269

It reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where Kramer refuses to wear the aids ribbon on an aids walk because they told him that he ‘must wear it’. He ends up getting yelled at by eyeryone (who can’t say why he must, but he must) and gets beaten up.

We thought it was comedy...

Sappho, it does not work like that. Other people cannot enforce how others interpret things.

In Asia swastikas are perfectly friendly, often beautiful, symbols of an eternal faith.

At a Spanish fiestas flags with the cross of St George refer to historic battles with the Moors.

And rainbows used to promise a pot of gold in the distance.

It would be a reasonable guess that the pleasant middle aged Southwest trains ticket inspector (who was very patient when I had to rummage through my bag to find my ticket) was told, or at least encouraged, to wear her rainbow lanyard. She almost certainly would not have given a stuff if my two-together rail pass had included a woman rather than DH. Equally I had no interest whatsoever in her sexual preferences. Or indeed whether she had XY chromosomes.

So no I did not see the rainbow lanyard = gay pride. Instead I saw it as pointless and meaningless, suggesting both coercion and a misguided corporate desire to achieve woke points (perhaps to divert attention from a weak service delivery.)