What do you think about the rainbow flag?

[DJLippy]

Does anyone else get a shudder when they see a rainbow flag outside a venue? Harry the Owl compared it to a Nazi flag and I'm inclined to agree.

I'm Bisexual so I should be thrilled to find all these inclusive spaces but I just feel a stab of anxiety and make a mental note to steer well clear. It's a real physiological reaction not something I can control.

A few years ago I used to love seeing the pride flag outside bars. I guess back then it actually meant something. Now I feel like it's actually a sign of exclusion - that anyone who doesn't believe that twaw is not safe there.

Also it does kind of imply that all the other venues are a threat to the LGBTQI++ people. I actually get a lot less grief being with a woman in a normie bar than I would in a gay bar. What's more its often just random cafes and shops which as far as I am aware have no gay history. Just feels like a cheap virtue signal by straight woke folk.

I'd be interested in hearing from people who are same sex attracted. Do you feel that the flag which used to represent your community been appropriated by male supremacists? Do you self exclude from spaces which fly the rainbow flag?

in my mind it was synonmous with fantastic bars and nightclubs that were genuinely inclusive of everyone and everyone was free to be themselves and have a great time

I don't really see the mixed scene as genuinely inclusive though, I think there's always been some misogyny directed towards lesbians. I was lucky to be in London when there were lots of lesbian only bars, now there's practically nothing.

I'm bi, but don't feel like I count as I have a husband. However my lesbian friends have become very cautious of places screaming pride from the rooftops. They take a venue on its individual merits but very much feel their identity has been eroded over recent years. One of them to the extend that she doesn't call herself lesbian anymore, she's declared herself 'incompatible with male genitalia.'

I'm so old that my warm, fuzzy feelings of solidarity are associated with purple flags bearing the labyrys sign which means lesbian strength to me. Rainbow flags came later, and I saw them as corporate virtue-signalling which until recently I thought was a bit tedious and annoying but basically harmless.

These days, however, I associate them with the hostility towards lesbians at Pride, and the endless demands being made by the trans rights extremists at work. I don't feel as threatened by rainbow flags as some on this thread have said they do, but they do make me feel like an outsider which is interesting as someone who's been out as lesbian for nearly 40 years.

I actually see it as pretty vacuous symbol now, tbh. I've always preferred the flag with the labrys on it anyway.

The rainbow is so ubiquitous it doesn't mean much of anything, really. I used to see it and know there was a safe harbour somewhere around if I needed it, but now I see it and I know it's probably very likely that there aren't specifically lesbian, gay or bisexual related anything involved, it's just a fashionable decoration to display corporate values yada yada yada.

If I see it in conjunction with the trans flag, then yes, I feel fairly unsafe, and I know the network at work which uses the rainbow flag/lanyard etc is chockablock with straight 'allies', which always feels a bit patronizing, tbh, like wearing a special rainbow badge to prove you're not a bigot is necessary.

But yes, mostly just an empty gesture now, a symbol which feels like it's been gutted of it's power as a signpost to safety.

Back in the 90s and peaceful days of the noughties, I used to love it. Now sadly, it feels like a symbol for the woke washed.

It used to be called Gay Pride but now it is an industry called Pride. That’s what grated on me, that it’s a cynical marketing ploy.

the rainbow flag/lanyard etc is chockablock with straight 'allies', which always feels a bit patronizing, tbh, like wearing a special rainbow badge to prove you're not a bigot is necessary.

IKR. Esp as many woke flag-wavers actually hold incredibly bigoted views in that they don’t tolerate any deviation from TRA mantras.

Just happened to me, about 3 minutes before spotting the thread. Southwest trains ticket collector has a rainbow lanyard.

What is that all about. Trains should be women friendly, gay friendly, child friendly, racial minority friendly, elderly friendly, disabled friendly, whatever. We have all bought ticket in order to get from A to B, and all we really want from the train company is to do this efficiently.

I looked at the woman collecting tickets and wondered if she had volunteered to wear it or if she had been co-erced. To be honest my immediate associations were woman unfriendly, child sterilisation, prison rape, hostile adherence to cult beliefs rather than reality, intolerance, pups and furries, Yaniv, etc.

Brand imaging gone wrong?

I'm not a massive fan of the swastika comparison, but I see where people are coming from when they make it.

When I see the rainbow flag flying, I immediately understand that the institution/organization has been "captured" by the dogma.

As an aside I very much appreciate rainbow badges and lanyards in the NHS.

Why? Would you appreciate Conservative flags and lanyard in the NHS?

As an aside I very much appreciate rainbow badges and lanyards in the NHS.

I don't. I think people can wear them whilst knowing fuck all about what it's actually like being a lesbian.

I'm still waiting for this level of allegiance and support to be stated for people with learning disabilities, those of us who are deaf, partially-sighted, have vision problems etc. etc.

This.

It's been appropriated by the trans juggernaut, hasn't it?

I'm not a massive fan of the swastika comparison, but I see where people are coming from when they make it.
Same - the point is not to say that LGBTQIABC123=Nazis, which is possibly how some posters may have taken the comparison. The point is the swastika is an ancient symbol of good luck/wellbeing/fertility (I believe ‘swastika’ is Sanskrit for ‘good health’ or similar?), it became very trendy in the early 20th century, and then in the 30s the Nazi party co-opted it and the rest, as we say, is history. It’s about appropriating a symbol and changing it’s meaning completely, not calling people Nazis, but because of that connection it’s clearly an unhelpful analogy and will get people’s backs up!

The swasi existed across cultures and continents for thousands of years before the nazis stole it. It’s origins are mysterious (there is one in the U.K. from the Bronze Age) and the meaning changes depending on what version it is, but they were always positive and lots of people believe they have a kind of magical energy to them, partly because it was already everywhere before people figured how to travel. One theory is that it’s a crude depiction of the sun.

The Hindu version is probably the second best known, but the Native American kind, The Whirling Logs, is probably the coolest. Swasis can be found in the tessellating tile patterns that decorate mosques, Buddha has one in the middle of his chest and there are some on the floor of Hereford Cathedral. Once you start looking for them you see them everywhere.

I expect that’s why the nazis liked it. They were very effective with symbols and uniforms.

I had the great pleasure of meeting ‘Manwoman’ (not trans, just an old hippy, would probably be called a transphobe and cultural appropriator now, or post humously transed as non-binary) and hope that one day his dream, to take the swastika back, is realised:

www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/artist-fought-an-uphill-crusade-to-rehabilitate-the-swastika/article6980663/

Bit of a tangent. Soz.

Still, it’s got to be easier to rehabilitate a rainbow than a swastika!

This is what I mean when I say that once you start looking for swasis, you see them all over the place:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-26369329

www.pinterest.co.uk/suunjata/muslim-swastikas/

br.pinterest.com/pin/24347654219199275/

I come out in a severe rash every time I see the rainbow flag, these days....I'm allergic.

The rainbow flag has become a corporate branding exercise....that and unicorns....can't get away from them.

I think we will know we are winning when Barclays fails to turn its app logo rainbow during LGBT+++++ month. Last year they took about three months to turn it back.

No indication they had any concerns about the disabled, or the elderly, even though they are the most likely to struggle with increasingly impersonal banking. Just the flipping Ts. (I am assuming the recent corporate enthusiasm has little to do with the LGBs, and I do have every sympathy for those with dysphoria. Just a dislike of the whole rainbow stuff).

The swastiker comparison is not just about the appropriation of a neutral symbol; it is about the insidious undemographic spread of a ideology hidden from public, about the silencing of critics, the gestapo-esque reporting and monitoring of rebels through the use of private individuals and the police acting beyond their powers, the repeated statement of untruths and condemning of those who do not follow these, the ignoring of laws and asserting of unlawful discrimination as lawful, the indoctrination of children, the harrowing harms to children in order to prop up the ideology, the removal of safeguarding of the vulnerable, the control of the media...

I am assuming the recent corporate enthusiasm has little to do with the LGBs

It appears most people on this thread are assuming the same.

I see the corporate enthusiasm as about tolerance and acceptance of everyone, and I don't think that's a bad thing.

Coming out at work can be difficult, I've had to do it all my adult life. In my current job it took me about 3 months to admit to colleagues my partner was a woman and I had no idea how they would react. If I'd seen a rainbow lanyard it would have been a huge relief and I would know there was at least one ally in the business or the business was a tolerant place to work.

Don't underestimate how homophobic people can be in the workplace. Recently a colleague spotted a client had joined a LGBT LinkedIn group - he loudly announced it to the whole office saying 'bloody hell he must be a poofter, well he's off my Christmas card list'

My town hall has three flag poles, always flys the Union Jack, and the borough flag. Third is usually up for grabs.
It’s proudly flying the rainbow flag, and I’m not sure why? Is it LGBT history month? I’m pretty sure we had pride ‘weeks’ all over summer, so it’s never ending apparently. Might as well be the year of the rainbow and be done with it.
Although tbf, it does fly the England flag at times too. I wonder what’ll be next. Maybe I’ll ask them, or make some suggestions... what Wimmin days/flags can I make them aware of?

Not underestimating the existence of homophobia in the workplace and other places at all, Sappho. That's one of the very pressing reasons I still think Stonewall had a very real mission to engage with even after marriage equality, but sadly they've decided lying about the law and creating award ponzi schemes is better for them than genuinely confronting anti-gay sentiment in a constructive way.

FWIW, I still have a few rainbow bits and badges, and I'm part of the Pride network at work, but I am under no illusions that I'm really part of anything very useful. Tbh, the best relationships I have at work in terms of challenging anti gay feeling are via chats in the staff canteen over the day's papers. A very lively discussion ensued after Phillip Schofield, for example, and myself and another gay colleague were able to naturally address some of the misconceptions that arose, and there wasn't a lanyard in sight.

I do think that the Fair Cop guys and some people here are getting paranoid about this

I really don't see the evidence that rainbow lanyards are a LGBTAFDAREAWAFD++++++ symbol. I've got a rainbow ratchet strap for tying things onto the car - I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with that. Some things are just done in rainbow because it's a nice set of colours.

It's sad. It used to be such a strong symbol of liberation and anti-oppression for the gay and lesbian community but it has effectively been hijacked.

However, I remember that for many gays and lesbians it still is. I think of how powerful and inspirational it remains for gays and lesbians throughout the world who face terrible oppression and risk imprisonment and even death (literal death not the nonsense TRAs spout here) just to wield it.

So yeah, mixed feelings

I do think that the Fair Cop guys and some people here are getting paranoid about this

Paranoid? How is it paranoid when you have the police turning up at your workplace and threatening you for thinking wrong thoughts? Even the judge said it was Orwellian!