12 year old daughter saying she thinks she's male

[controversialquestion]

Hi
Posted this in behaviour and development and got no response. Would really appreciate some advice about who to put DD in contact with for some advice.
Would very much welcome some advice. My 12 year old daughter has appeared perfectly happy (albeit quite quirky) until she started secondary school this year. On the surface she still appears happy - has a good group of friends and social life, and is doing well academically. However, she has been increasingly saying she is self-conscious, and some weeks ago self harmed several times - we have got her some support through both the GP and school. It looked like things were settling down and she had a good half term. However she came to see me yesterday and said she thought she was actually male. She had had a period of about 6 months around 2 years ago where she would only wear boys clothes (and said she had asked friends to call her a boys name but they wouldn't) but since then she has had a number of phases, including some quite girly ones.
I had a long chat with her and told her I didn't think people could be in the wrong body - it was much more about how they perceived themselved etc. and pressures from society. We talked a lot about how you could live your life as you pleased (within reason) as a woman, and didn't need to conform to any gender norm or sexuality while still remaining a woman. She agreed, but said she felt she would feel more comfortable and less self concious with a male body or liviing as a male. She had quite early puberty and has a clearly female shape already.
We kind of left it there with the channels of communication left open, but I would welcome any advice. I certainly do not want her going down the trans route but have made it clear that I have no problem regarding whatever her sexuality may be or how she chooses to present herself / dress etc. Are there any groups that she could talk to that wouldn't encourage her to consider herself trans? I'm really struggling to be both supportive while not wishing to support the idea that she is indeed a male and could / should live like this. Obviously it may all go away in the next few weeks as she's only 12, but even if it does I think it's important she feels listened to and there's obviously something going on with her that requires support. I'm also concerned that if she talks to her counsellor at school that they will refer her to Mermaids or something similar, so feel I need to have identified another support organisation that I can encourage her to contact that won't support this stance.

I’ll come back later when I have more time but wanted to quickly post to say you are not alone! My daughter is 14 and has identified as a boy since October. I’m not aware of any non affirming groups for children (and you are right to be wary of the school counsellor unless you speak to them first and find out their position!), but there is support out their for parents who want to take a more cautious approach - e.g. Bayswater Support (www.bayswatersupport.org.uk/) has been a Godsend to me.

Have a look at the transgender trend website. They favour watchful waiting.

Keep her away from Mermaids, whatever you do! I think lots of listening is the hugely valuable thing you can do. Suddenly acquiring adult female characteristics, especially when your friends haven't, is enough to make anyone wobbly and self-conscious. I wonder whether she's getting unwelcome attention from others in her class or older students? Do try to help her unpick why she feels uncomfortable in her body, apart from it just being new to her. I wonder whether she really is wanting to have a male body or just wishing hers wasn't quite so obviously female, and drawing attention that she can't handle?

If she doesn't like her body has she seen a mature man's penis. It is so ugly - would she really want one of them?
Periods are horrid (initially as a young teen, the mess and the smell) and body hair etc but boys have things to deal with too, in different ways obviously, why does she want to be male? Does she like football, cars?
I worry that it is that they don't want to have to deal with women's stuff.

Pay close attention to what she is accessing online.....stress to her the dangers of listening to strangers online who may have a harmful agenda. Also I'd explain that in your day there were no trans children-this is an incredibly new phenomena which many people still don't actually believe is real. Yes there are transexual adults (most often men presenting as women) But the whole trans child is a bizarre new trend. Gender dysphoria is a real condition but I would robustly query the legitimacy of trans children. Good luck.

Thanks so much for your replies. Am out at the moment but will reply properly later when I’m back.

4thwavenow.com/2016/12/17/a-mums-voyage-through-transtopia-helps-her-daughter-desist/

Hope I've done the link right. My circumstances are different but when my older and autistic daughter said she wanted to be a boy I found this piece helped me to support her in the way I instinctively felt was right without losing her in the process.

The most likely thing is that as an early developer she is now dealing with the unwanted male attention women and girls are subjected to on a daily basis.

She agreed, but said she felt she would feel more comfortable and less self concious with a male body or liviing as a male.

I think this is the bit to talk about and listen about.

She would be more comfortable and less conscious as a male - no periods, not boobs to attract attention, and, to be frank, none of the male issues like unwanted erections instead.

I don't know of any groups - but I was very much like your daughter I think. I couldn't even wear a v-neck until I was nearly 20 because I was too embarrassed at showing even a hint of cleavage.

Waiting was all that worked for me. Gaining self-confidence. I didn't have the internet though (well, a fledgling internet, nothing like now), but then I also didn't have a good relationship with my mum.

Please keep the communications open, talk when she wants to talk, back off if she gets defensive, try to just inject little bit common sense and perspective when you can. This is a waiting game for her to mature and figure it out for herself.

One thing I've seen repeatedly is to help her get back in touch with her body - see its strength - getting out and doing sports, or dancing or anything that's using her body and away from the internet.

“I couldn't even wear a v-neck until I was nearly 20 because I was too embarrassed at showing even a hint of cleavage. “

Same here. Early development is horrible.

Also you say she’s wearing boys clothes, but she’s not is she? She’s just wearing clothes and should be encouraged to see it that way.

No direct experience but I have seen sports mentioned elsewhere as well. Doesn't need to be competitive or public, it could be long family hikes or frisbee in the park or anything really - just having a good long break from the internet and a rush of endorphins, feeling happy to have a body that lets you have fun.

It may well be that now she is at secondary school, even if there isn't an official school policy, that the trans narrative has got hold among pupils.

Many young people have grown up with this idea that if you dont like your body or like boy things then you must be a boy.

Are you aware of this being an issue at the school. Have any other mums mentioned it.

Just thought I would raise this, because if the school is inadvertently feeding this message it is something to consider. Safe School Allaince has been organising around this.

But hopefully with you being supportive and giving her the freedom to talk about it with you, she will grow up to accept she is female - even if she only ever wears male clothing for the rest of her life!

(Haven't got time now, but will try and google, though some may have the links any way to videos from de-transitioners. Ones where young women talk about thinking they needed to transition rather than medical horror stories.)

Hope all goes well.

The transition to secondary school proved very traumatic here too, along with the added onus of a developing teen body.
My DD self-harmed, starved herself, had a distorted view of what she looked like (I’m fat - size 6 at best for 5’8 at the time), etc.
We stopped short of the I want to be a boy feelings thankfully.
We found a therapist, then had to find another and another until we were in eating disorder territory and had to seek out someone specialised. This woman has been a godsend and has brought her back from the brink. Not 100% there yet but I would say that therapy has helped loads.
Shapeless clothes also helped for a while and a good bra of the minimiser variety.
I hope you find help and I hope she continues to talk to you. 🌼

This was me at that age. I hated the fact that my body was changing and I would have done anything to stop it. I was hysterical when my periods started and used to try and flatten my growing breasts. I’d only wear baggy/men’s clothes. I suspect if the trans narrative was as big as it is now back then I would have declared that I was a boy. It is such an uncomfortable time, especially when you aren’t confident enough to talk about it with others or they aren’t as developed as you.

I came out the other side though, and I’m still not typically girly but I’m ok with my body and ‘womanlyness’, it just took time and me being able to express myself how I liked - including clothes, hobbies/interests, friends, hairstyles etc.

It’s such a young age to declare that you want to change your whole self.

I would just be as supportive as you can about letting her express herself but not making permanent changes including her name! Good luck OP

Does she understand that she can never actually be male?

That's the starting point.

Empathise with the feelings, let her dress how she wishes, have her hair however she wishes, slow everything right down other than that.

Do not focus her wanting to be a boy; do not argue about it, don't feel the need to constantly check in with her about it, even in a supportive 'I'm just being here for you' way. It's not an obsession we want to feed, even by our kindness and care.

Encourage her other interests, talk about all things not gender. Be supportive of creative self-expression in other arenas (fashion, art, music, drama etc). If she is involved in a sport or physical activity, encourage her to continue. If she isn't, find one - it's good for her to remain connected to her body, even as she goes through the process of accepting it.

Don't feel the need to take her to see anyone, unless she exhibits other behaviours indicating depression over more than 2 weeks, or self harm etc. In that case, take her to the GP (cautiously) for a referral, if needed, to an independent adolescent psychiatrist, private if possible.

Stay away from Mermaids, GIDs etc.

If you normally have a good relationship (and it sounds like you do) then continue to make the relationship a priority - spend time together doing things that are fun or otherwise meaningful.

Be the trustworthy, reassuring adult...normalise the feelings that come with puberty - it's a difficult time for many girls, of course wanting to be a boy seems like one way out of it, especially when that's the contagion of the day - but you know that she'll move through this process happy and whole, because you've been through it too, and you are not freaking out (either negatively OR positively) because there's nothing to freak out about. This too shall pass.

• sorry, I wasn't clear - a referal, if need be, to an adolescent psychiatrist for the mental health issues (not for a diagnosis of gender dysphoria).

@controversialquestion keep her away from the internet. YouTube and twitter etc are a hotbed for grooming teenagers to believe they’re trans and she is so young and impressionable. Please please whatever you do ensure she has no unsupervised internet access. I know it’s hard but honestly it’s so dangerous.

Good luck :(

Sounds exactly like me. I didn't feel comfortable with my body until my late 20s. I was later diagnosed as autistic in my mid 30s which explained quite a bit.

Have you ever looked into autism? Many girls and women are undiagnosed.

Also look for the detrans subreddit on Reddit, it could be a place for your daughter to ask some questions to people who have been through the same thing. (Not reddit in general though, they'd have her on hormones and surgery in a heartbeat.)

I would say it,s ok to not be comfortable with your body, it,s ok to be a tomboy but the fact is she can,t really be male. Even with hormones and operations she still won,t be a boy/man but she could damage the body she already has. There are some good articles about trans op regretters out there. (But she may not be ready for that.)

A lovely and wise post janeskettle

Keeping these children grounded in reality, making sure they access all the creative, interesting, collaborative aspects of life and having an active part in family life are critical. Our fear of all this makes us freeze and leaves children in the hands of the groomers in the pressure groups and online.

Op I'm very supportive but I'm surprised no one has mentioned how difficult the culture in secondary is for girls. Especially in Year 7 and Year 8.
The beauty industry is all pervasive especially at this age and little girls are mean.
There's not much teachers can do about it especially as subject teachers.
Three half terms of this into this academic year and I'm not surprised that there are girls wanting whole heartedly to opt out. And that's not even including the girls excluded and bullied due to this culture. It's like mean girls on acid out there.
I think you'd be best teaching her that girls don't have to have::
Perfect blonde hair
Perfect eyebrows
Hate math
Be bitches
Walk with a sashay in groups. (Overly sexualised)
Be all consumed by fashion and makeup.

I could write a dissertation on where it's come from (love island) but it's all pervasive as I said esp in year 7 and 8. Older teens are wiser. Even girls who don't believe in above, pretend to to not stick out.
Girls who don't or won't, at best, get socially excluded and depressed.
I can see why being a boy is appealing and it's not because the boys are preditory or due to female body development. Boys in high schools are more allowed to be human and the girls can see that. It's like the blooming smurfs.
I don't have any advice other than home schooling, sorry, but I thought I was worth noting above as no one else had pointed it out.

Thanks so much for all these responses - very helpful. I'll look at the links tomorrow. I think she finds breasts and periods embarrassing and very inconvenient, although she won't really admit it. I do think she was really too young when they started really, although she didn't really want to talk about it.
I don't know if she worries about male attention - she actually has a "boyfriend" who she has quite an intense (although very innocent) relationship with. He's very kind and supportive and I don't really know where that fits in at all.
She does a lot of sport, both a sport that is traditionally "male", and several that are more traditionally female. She seems to feel quite comfortable choosing things she enjoys and doesn't really worry about the "in crowd" or how she appears to the outside world- or at least says she doesn't. She does have a rather strange niche hobby which certainly allows for self expression and we encourage that (as do her friends). Her friends are quite open-minded and she's quite charismatic in a low key way, so they tend to follow her lead a bit. Our family certainly doesn't conform to the traditional gender roles in the way we live our lives and she certainly has never expressed that she feels constrained by her sex.

I have wondered about high functioning autism - she doesn't fit the typical picture at all, but I know that girls don't. I sometimes think her responses seem a bit copied or learnt, which makes me wonder, but in terms of relationships, coping with new situations etc. she's fine and no-one has ever mentioned anything.

@controversialquestion I would just keep an eye on her a little more to see if anything’s up, not full on spy just if she goes out, make sure you know where she’s going.. Teens can be good at lying and keeping secrets bear in mind, but I wouldn't worry too much Xx

Re autism: tricky one. Our DD was diagnosed with a high IQ in primary school. The two overlap and our health team admitted last year that they find it very difficult to “label” her. For now, we are going with high IQ with behaviour that may, on the surface, appear to be autistic at times.