Moral Maze - Radio 4 8pm 19 Feb - Transgender Rights

[CaveMum]

Transgender Rights is the topic of tonight’s episode.

Woman’s Place have tweeted that they are taking part and that the Labour pledge (and slurs against WPUK and LGB Alliance) will be discussed.

twitter.com/womans_place_uk/status/1229901138192891904?s=21

Well the TW just kept coming back to "I am a women"

The Rev was very annoying, aggressive towards Graham and so self important. As someone who has studied feminism they know Kiri has a hidden agenda. It was all personal attacks.

Ooooh Michael (p) - it's becoming an intolerant ideology!

It would be good to read a transcript of some of the comments from both the panel & witnesses

Yes a transcript would be useful. I swear JF made a loose link to the knowledge of puberty blockers impact to ibuprofen...

Rev Rachel Mann (sic) has 'been around feminists' for a long time, and so knows all about how beastly they are.

Both the transwomen came across as incredibly manipulative and sinister, the enby just as a misogynist.

Yes, I need to hear that bit again about family resemblance making you a woman

Graham seemed confused by the ‘briefing paper’ wonder who wrote it...

Here y'are:

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000fgsp

Bloody hell.
I'm sorry for any mean thoughts I ever had about Michael portillo FFS
I think I'd cry if I met him now.

I remember staying up just to watch him lose his seat years ago. I have to say though I've warmed to him since he became a TV presenter/commentator instead. He's done some good shows.

My Dad would be pissing himself if he could hear me say this now.

I do like that Glinner got in the voices of trans women who agree with WPUK. They were absent from the studio and their rational voices do help when introducing to the uninitiated.

Obviously I'd prefer women could speak for themselves without men.

No one managed to point this out; that there's overt misogyny in this debate.

That was really good- like a Mumsnet thread on the radio.

Portillo started out with the most important question: how do you define woman

Oh god the asmr thing now. It doesn't do it for me. I'm a synesthete...

Really interesting. The typical fear expressed at the beginning - how this is such a sensitive / difficult subject. I was pleasantly surprised that there was so much open challenge. I really was expecting the normal BBC propaganda.
The Rev wasn't happy and the 'nicey nicey' mask slipped several times. I realise, along with Tor and JF - these are people that nobody ever challenges. They are never told no. So it must be incredibly hard when they have to hear and consider views that challenge theirs.

Young Portillo was a nasty piece of work who saw the road to power as running right up Thatcher's arse.

The internal space left when he got the poliitcal shit kicked out of him has been filled with something more attractive.

Portillo started out with the most important question: how do you define woman

And came back to it throughout at the end- this was very astute.

He likes railways....so clearly not all bad

What on earth was all this stuff about 'where shall we put transwomen, they've got to go somwhere, where will they socialise?' about?

They can socialise in the general population at large as we all do. They can socialise in groups where women welcome transwomen and transmen. They can go to church, join political parties, attend parties where they've received an invitation, go to the theatre, join a walking group, whatever. They just don't get to socialise or be involved in a relatively small number of women-only or lesbian-only groups and organisations. And that's the thing they really seem to want, isn't it? It doesn't matter if they can have free access to 80% of the social groups and activities women go to, it's the 20% they are denied that they really, really, want to get into. What does that tell us?

...answer lives as a woman!!
Portillo: Trumps biology?
answer "what does biology mean?"

Portillo: Lost half the audience

Yup

No one said third spaces I don't think?

Not sure why!

Registered after lurking for years to say it was brilliant . Well done glinner.

Well done the woman’s place lady. And as a 57 year old Labour Party supporter who celebrated his loosing his seat in 1997, we’ll done Michael Portillo.

The tIDE is turning.

Portillo accused of calling trans pedophiles, quickly put them straight-- "not what I said"

Attempting to misdirect, I wonder why. Maybe cannot answer the actual question

I hope so Idraselbaslady