Lisa Nandy says child rapists should be in women’s prisons if they identify as female

[RoyalCorgi]

Extraordinary.

www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=oUon9j1zJ_E&

I think we should get away from the me-railer, but here's Robin in 2011 talking to The Times:
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/i-tried-very-hard-to-be-male-but-it-just-didnt-work-out-nt8lk5cbxrf

It has been a long journey. White, 47, says she first knew that she wanted to be a woman in her early teens. Trained as a scientist and then working as a manager in the transport sector, she came to the Bar late, being called in 1995. She was married for 12 years but separated from her wife last year. “It was an issue from early on,” she says. There were no children. “I tried very hard to bury it — I spent 30 years trying to ‘eliminate the impossible’, as Sherlock Holmes said. I tried very hard to be male, to be a good husband, but it just didn’t work out.”

But Robin, you were male, you are male and you will always be male. Being male is a biological fact. No matter how much you hate your body or hate the expected masculinity, it is inescapable.

We should be working towards a world where being male or female aren't seen as such narrow categories. All personalities and presentations should be available to all of us regardless of sex. Then there would be no need for people to go to such lengths to try to imitate the opposite sex. We could all just be our true selves.

This is not the language of politics which is the accomodation of difference. This is all about the elimination of all dissent. It is the language of a Marxist revolution, with the usual results of plenty of broken eggs but no omlette.

NewStatesman 20 APRIL 2018 by Helen Lewis:

'The madness of our gender debate, where feminists defend slapping a 60-year-old woman
It seems swivel-eyed to condemn rhetorical “attacks” and blithely ignore physical ones.
(extract)
"You would have thought that a feminist getting punched in the face would be reasonably large news – particularly if her attacker had boasted online earlier of wanting to “fuck up” some feminists, comparing them to fascists. But the conviction of the person who attacked 60-year-old Maria MacLachlan at Speakers’ Corner last year didn’t trouble the pages of the Guardian, where I would normally expect to hear about something that veers close to being a hate crime, or the LGBT website Pink News. Why? A clue comes in the fact that MacLachlan was slapped by a 26-year-old transgender woman called Tara Wolf, who explained to the court that MacLachlan was a “TERF” – a term commonly used to stand for “trans exclusionary radical feminist”, ie one who doesn’t believe that trans women are “real” women, but which Wolf defined as a “trans exterminatory radical feminist”.

The implication was that MacLachlan, now 61, wants all transgender people dead – something that seems absolutely barking until you realise this is quite a common accusation in activist spaces. The feminist group Sisters Uncut, which has done great work protesting the closure of domestic violence services, somehow looked at the case and decided that Wolf was the real victim. It used a hashtag – #freetheshewolf – and called for a protest outside Hendon Magistrates’ Court, asking for support for a “trans woman targeted… and harassed by TERFs, transmisogynists and cops”, adding: “Attacks on trans lives will not be tolerated.”

While I have no doubt that Wolf has faced prejudice and bullying due to being trans, it seems swivel-eyed to condemn rhetorical “attacks” and blithely ignore physical ones." (continues)

The Wolf affair also demonstrates another alarming phenomenon: the left getting high on its own supply of self-righteousness. “Some feminists have a different conception of gender to me” gets smudged into “some feminists talk about me in ways that I find offensive” and on to “some feminists are basically Hitler, trying to eradicate people like me”.

Once you reach the last statement, then of course you can slap a woman and still think of yourself as a good person. She wants to kill you; a mere punch is self-defence. (I’m not exaggerating about the language. The Edinburgh branch of Action for Trans Health tweeted the day after the attack: “Punching TERFs is the same as punching Nazis. Fascism must be smashed with the greatest violence to ensure our collective liberation from it.”) continues
www.newstatesman.com/politics/feminism/2018/04/madness-our-gender-debate-where-feminists-defend-slapping-60-year-old

I can’t find anyone. The closest there seems to be is tweets from people who think the issue is that Julia Long asked the question, which then mostly descend into ad hominens on Julia

There are usually some determined derailers & shade-casters on MN threads discussing Dr Long's Safeguarding questions to trans rights activists/advocates. They are very keen that we consider the 'literal violence' of her dangerous words & often go to some lengths to protect others from being exposed to them.

Of course I think in those previous cases Dr Long asked the questions of influential males rather than in this case an infuential female. Maybe thats why

Thank you for all the comments. Very useful. Entirely clear that Mumsnet isn’t the place for a respectful debate about difficult issues.

When your starting position is 'anyone who disagrees with me is a bigot ad wishes I didnt exist' then..no debate is going to satisfy you tbh.

This twitter thread is a thing of beauty. It explains the clapping crowd at Lisa Nandy’s ‘TWAW’ statement and all the other madness perfectly:

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1229539824031485952.html

Entirely clear that Mumsnet isn’t the place for a respectful debate about difficult issues.

Who's going to tell Robin about Kiwi Farms?

I've just started a thread with that very same twitter thread DuLANG, although when I looked at the unrolled version I couldn't see the youtube link on conformity which I thought was fascinating

The Malcolm Clark thread is very good, DuLANG - why haven't I come across him before? However, the tulipmania story is apparently something of a myth:

www.smithsonianmag.com/history/there-never-was-real-tulip-fever-180964915/

We need a way to weed out lift spinners before they become elected politicians!

Goddess I wish Magdalen was here and able to see gender woo reaching fever pitch.

I keep saying many transexuals are the perpetrators of exactly the behaviour described in the trans widows threads!

Who's going to tell Robin about Kiwi Farms?

🤣 🥝 🤭

RoyalCorgi

Malcolm Carke does excellent threads linking evidence. He is a documentary maker & was also recently involved with launching LGB Alliance in Scotland.

Threadreader archives the threads & they're worth exploring.

July 28th 2019
1/ When did I first realise that extreme trans ideas are dangerous nonsense? Doubts started when I filmed with April Ashley, Britain's first transexual. She was described as a pioneer and so she was but also a heroine since she'd married..
2/ ..a minor Scottish aristocrat who divorced his wife to marry her. I met the aristo's family whose lives she'd ruined with tabloid scandal when her 'marriage' was annulled. She never once showed any sympathy and made it quite clear she was never in love...
3/..In the end, she said, our film suggested she was a gold digger. In one telling scene she said ..."I always imagined what it would be like to live in such a big house". She struck me as completely self-obsessed.
4/ Later I was asked to help out on a BBC Horizon, (I'd directed a number of shows for the strand) on a film about people who believed they were 'meant' to be amputees. I interviewed an otherwise seemingly normal German guy who wanted both his legs cut off below the knee..
5/ A Scottish surgeon did the op. The psychiatrists who approved it were all schooled in trans ideas and used trans type arguments. 'He would commit suicide if we don't do it', they said. They also claimed they carefully distinguished people like him from 'mere' fetishists
6/ But it was quite clearly easy to fool the psychiatrists. If they needed fooling that is. I spent a lot of time with the German guy and a strange tale of an ...unusual.. upbringing emerged.
7/ His parents had, for example, owned a factory producing 'prosthetic limbs' and he complained 'they'd never had time for me...only for their patients'. Mmm. Horizon later made an insightful film about John Money, the founding father of 'gender' identity ideas..
8/ whose disastrous notions led to the suicide of a man whose parents had been advised to bring him up as a girl. I therefore tried to get a Horizon commissioned that would explore openly the science of trans. Could someone really be born in wrong sexed body?
9/ Trans activists suggested we feature amazing Dutch research that showed a group of transwomen brains studied after their death had some (tiny) similarities to female brains rather than male. I contacted the Dutch scientists who roundly rejected this take on their research.
10/ Instead they pointed out the transwomen had been on high dose female hormones for years. That was why the brains had some tiny similarities. This 'conclusively' pro-trans research is hardly ever cited now by trans activists. And when BBC realised we were going to conclude ...
11/ ...that there was zilch evidence that people are born into the wrong sexed body, they got cold feet and the idea was pulled. I've followed the research since and despite desperate attempts by activists to move the goalposts...
12/ there still is no convincing evidence. Mind you it wouldn't surprise me if there WAS some evidence that people who want to mutilate their bodies or are uncomfortable with their bodies (in some way) do share some gene or some physical 'marker'
13/ But in that case there's also a good chance that trans people who want to change their bodies share this physical or neurological 'marker' with others who have a hatred of their bodies; like those who want to be amputees. The ironic thing, 20 years on...
14/ from the making of that disturbing Horizon is that the scientists and the psychiatrists may have unwittingly been on to something but just not in the way they thought they were. People who think they are "meant" to be amputees may share some...
15/ condition with those who want to remove their breasts or their genitals. For me now lesson of the film is that the psychiatric and surgical professions are as hopelessly unable to safeguard interests of trans people, as they were of wannabe amputees. Indeed they have a ..
16/ vested interest in "identity" confusion. It's telling that as trans numbers have grown more trans people are unwilling to undergo surgery. Like trans activists who've kept trying to find new research that proves their case they try to find new ways to be trans but this..
17/ ...has now brought them into conflict with a wider society that is uncomfortable with transwomen who refuse to do what April Ashley did 60 years ago & remove their male genitals." (continues)

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1155458088964636675.html

Paul Embery is doing sterling work at pointing out the high price of tulips.

twitter.com/paulembery/status/1229480884979425281?s=21

twitter.com/paulembery/status/1229758865945878528?s=21

June 2019 Triggernometry interview:
'Paul Embery on Lexit and Why the Left Has Abandoned the Working Class'
Final question what's not been talked about which should be talked about? (from 1:01:00)
Embery, "the abolision of womanhood & the attack on woman's rights... I regard it as sinister"

Brilliant spectator article:
blogs.spectator.co.uk/2020/02/dawn-butlers-transgender-madness/?fbclid=IwAR1lYJoAHb0mn2gQZI5vA82iQ1tZJljPD6VLjgA922_XEaUrUkMQI6ZmX8M

The idea that a baby is born without sex is obviously nuts. But it is also the logical conclusion to the increasingly irrational, anti-scientific ideology of transgenderism. A key component of Labour’s new trans policy, and of trans campaigning more broadly, is that people should be allowed to identify as whatever sex they please.

I could click my fingers and say ‘My name is Brenda and I am a woman’, and hey presto, I become a woman. An actual woman. A real woman.

More:

We need to recognise the seriousness of all this. A senior Labour figure is flat-out denying scientific truth on national TV. Another senior Labour figure is proposing putting male rapists into close, walled quarters with vulnerable women. This is backward thinking. It feels like a kind of hysteria, where otherwise sensible people are saying things that are clearly untrue and even unhinged.

feminists who think people with penises are blokes, not women, and who presumably also think two plus two equals four, pesky thought criminals that they are.

Brendan O’Neill and Spiked have been plugging away with this for ages.

This is from Friday, so before Nandy said the stuff about penises picking their own cell mates and Butler forgot how sonographers can tell the vast majority 0f parents what sex their kid is at the 20 week anomaly scan:

Scathing article from Brendan. I don't see any way they can defend this nonsense.

Genuine question - what about male rapists who rape men who are put into male prisons. This happens, how is it so different?

Because men rape men, male rapists should be allowed in women’s prison? 🧐

I would suggest that is a problem for the male prison estate to sort out.

Brendon O'Neill Spectator (from above):
"Her point, presumably, is that the ancient human habit of saying ‘It’s a boy!’ or ‘It’s a girl!’ when a kid is born has always been a nasty, transphobic imposition on kids who actually should be allowed to decide for themselves what their own sex is."

Trans rights activists have made the argument that parents should be able to register X for sex on their childrens' birth certificates (rather than M or F) so as not to 'coercively assign' the wrong gender/sex. The child could then modify the record at a later point.

That article in tribunemag is quite a read. 😁

Mass political education will also be crucial to spread the intellectual tools to understand and fight our oppression; free night schools and accessible literature about what transphobia is and how to fight it could transform our political capabilities entirely.

Nae chance.

Do you think men that rape men don't also rape women?
By separating them at least we're protecting the women. And it's not all about actual rape anyway.