Lisa Nandy says child rapists should be in women’s prisons if they identify as female

[RoyalCorgi]

Extraordinary.

www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=oUon9j1zJ_E&

Like I said earlier, singer of one of my favorite bands, has a rather high pitched voice for a man and is in fact more "feminine" overall than some transwomen who spring to mind. Still wouldn't be happy if I was offered him as a counsellor when I called a rape crisis line even though I think he is in general a rather kind, empathic sort of person. There are certain situations where a woman wants to talk to another woman, and any male person who doesn't respect that is red flagging themselves.

I wouldnt put myself forward, for example, as a receptionist at a rape counselling centre.. Fucking hell. I can't believe what I just read.

I wonder why Robin didn't use Canada as an excellent example of self id going brilliantly well for women.

I do enjoy reading those personal paeans to Robinself. I feel we should be very aware what a wonderful humanitarian walks among us, come here onto this thread to... dismiss concerns about women in prisons being housed with rapists and tell us what a vair, vair, decent sort of person they are.

any male person who doesn't respect that is red flagging themselves.

The heart of the matter. The male people wanting to be rape counsellors to women are the last people who should be allowed to be. Most men understand that women don't tend to want that.

If I walked into or called a rape crisis center and a male person answered the phone or was sitting at the front desk, I would hang up/leave. Even if said male person has lovely long hair and was wearing a dress. The fact that Robin does not understand why is precisely why Robin should not have a role in deciding whether or not male people are to be admitted to those spaces.

Because Britain is so different from other jurisdictions (like Eire) that have self-ID and have no problems?

From memory, Ireland purposely put a clause into their legislation that prisons remain single sex, which is sensible really.

Also, not really sure why that was put as a reply to me tbh. I am against self ID, even when self-ID would benefit me.

And basically, lets use Canada as an example as they are probably the furthest down the rabbit hole. 'No problems with self-ID' however, its a crime to even report any problems, as you wuld have to refer to the male person as male.

I personally have no issue with 'treating transwomen like women' but..tbh I don't treat women any differently anyway. With people I know I do use the wrong pronoun to make them feel comfortable, and actually have a close family member who is trans (though wants the op, but her partner says they want her to keep penis..odd situation really) but sees the glaring issues with self ID and also thinks the actions of TRAs are fucking vile and clearly misogynistic. And...cannot see the need for GRCs these days anyway, given they were only brought in as a way to avoid bringing in same sex marriage, and as a way for transwomen to claim pension at the same time they would if they were a woman.

I didnt mean none of the public will be nice or whatever, asnd refer to transwomen as women..I kind of meant, noone in power sees them that way. Take the recent court cases as an example tbh..if Hayden was seen as a woman by the police/CPS they would have been told to fuck right off. Caroline Farrow has been massively targetted and abused by Hayden and their mate, to the point where they found wher she lived, threatened to turn up, loads of messages per day, threats, etc. And no action. Yet, 'offending' Hayden by sending 7 tweets over 9 months..is worthy of prosecution. Why the difference in treatment? Hmm

I find this whole nonsense baffling.

Why is being a transwoman not enough?
Why is it necessary to bulldoze everyone into saying you are a woman?
Surely pride in what you are and your own journey is erased by this pretence?

Women and trans women don’t have the same challenges to face.

The subject of toilets and other single sex places seems even less well thought. Why do people imagine these places were needed in the first place? Do they feel those needs no longer exist?

5zeds exactly. Fucking sick of this shit.

Ah from the story above, it seems the prison clause wasn't right. Either way, 'no problems' is a ridiculous claim. There have been 'problems' in all countries that adopt 'self ID', but given its only women affected, noone seems to really care.

Also even if there had actually never been any crimes related to self ID, that still doesn't mean there has been no problems. Every woman who has avoided an area with an obvious male in there..even if no reports, is a problem. And yes, self ID leads to more males in womans spaces and no, the equalities act does not make that impossible as TRAs claim..

Robin I’ve been listening to your online interview. You do sound 100% male. When listening I find it impossible to conceive of you as anything other than male. An Adult male. The experience is visceral.

How does one go about trying to accept you as, or conceive of you as any type of woman when one wholly experiences you as male?

Just musing over this, don’t know why I’m asking really but sharing my thoughts anyway.

so do try to tone down the sense of superiority.

By agreeing? I thought feminism was about NOT following the stereotype of passive agreement? Or are trans women not allowed independent thought?

Hmm.

Good night.

“I don’t think the legislation envisaged the ability of transgender people to be able to self-declare; and it didn’t foresee the problems it would cause if a transgender, self-declared person was held in a mixed prison,” he said.

So, those making the legislation did not realise that self id meant people would self identify as the opposite sex and would use that in order to access spaces reserved for the opposite sex?! Would be funny if not so serious tbh

Indeed, 5zeds. Why is being provided with a captive audience of women who've been forced into compliance necessary in order to "be one's true self"? Why do the perceived rights of the trans individual to "be their true self" matter more than the rights of every single woman and girl in the country/world not to serve as a mechanism for the trans person's validation if she doesn't want to?

Not just you, Spartacus, especially given the history of activist transpeople implying that if black women and lesbians are "allowed" to be considered women then transwomen must be too.

The conversation goes patronise, sneer, gotcha, patronise, sneer, gotcha, my friends think I'm a woman, patronise, sneer, gotcha.

Fieldofgreycorn - is that really you?

If Robin has failed to convince Field, who is generally vehemently trans supportive, that Robin should be considered to be a woman as a matter of rights then I'm really not sure how Robin expects to convince anyone else.

So, those making the legislation did not realise that self id meant people would self identify as the opposite sex and would use that in order to access spaces reserved for the opposite sex?!

I know, it's ludicrous.

Because Britain is so different from other jurisdictions (like Eire) that have self-ID and have no problems?

How do you know that the women who are forced to share spaces with people born male don't have a problem with that ideology? Have you asked them? What if women dont want to share those spaces, is that a problem? Or not?

There have been 'problems' in all countries that adopt 'self ID', but given its only women affected, noone seems to really care. women are NOT the only ones damaged by self ID. Anyone watching the spread of trans ID through the vulnerable autistic community cannot possibly believe that this is only a problem for women. We have children taking drugs that will change their future selves before they can even understand what that means. Young adults mutilating their bodies in ways that can never be reversed. This isn’t an issue that impacts just women.

Feel free to have whatever independent thoughts cross your mind Robin. Science remains available to bolster your powers of independent thought any time you choose. Also the experience of women. Available for you to listen to as a further input into your thought process.

Or continue to rely on proclamation and the occasional rhetorical flourish as a substitute for actual thinking.

I thought feminism was about NOT following the stereotype of passive agreement?

Feminism is: 'a movement to combat sexual discrimination and to gain full legal, economic, vocational, educational, and social rights and opportunities for women, equal to those of men.'

Nowt to do with stereotypes oddly enough. And 100% focussed on the rights of female people. Or thats what feminism should be..