Lisa Nandy says child rapists should be in women’s prisons if they identify as female

[RoyalCorgi]

Extraordinary.

www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=oUon9j1zJ_E&

There are no comments on the DM article when I looked. Which looks like no one wants to comment, whereas I suspect they have been deleted/turned off?

b) historically the people we were considering as TW were a group of people who evoked sympathy - think Hailey from Coronation Street type

Trans rights activists were closely involved with the creation of this Corrie character & storyline.

Guardian 2013
'Voices from the trans community: 'There will always be prejudice'
It's more than 50 years since the UK's first trans person was outed in the press. So how do members of the community think life has changed for them since?'
(extract)
"Much of their campaigning remained on the quiet. The passage of the 2004 law to give trans people legal status was "remarkable," says [Christine] Burns, because "the government was able to pass an entire act in parliament without anyone throwing a fit in the press". In popular culture, the activists became more forthcoming in their attempts to increase popular understanding of trans issues. Although the arrival of trans character Hayley Cropper in Coronation Street in 1998 was one breakthrough, Julie Hesmondhalgh, who plays Cropper, is a non-transsexual woman." (continues)
www.theguardian.com/society/2013/jan/22/voices-from-trans-community-prejudice

Yeah rowan. Children in homes in our country. Meant to be in care

And dr Thorne being investigated for talking about safeguarding.

🤦‍♀️🤷‍♀️

Why am I NOT surprised Rowantrees? It's ironic that the TRAs object to women playing TW isn't it...

Then a shower of chancers decided that wasn’t enough. It wasn’t enough that women were nice and pretended along with you. No, TRA’s had to take the piss and parade their very maleness whilst brow beating/doxxing and of course sometimes just battering women into saying that regardless of anything else when man says he’s a women you better fucking go along with it

This completely alien to my experience of trans women. And I have met a goodly number. The overwhelming majority are good folk who have had a difficult time and just want to get on with their lives. I also often speak to women's groups and because trans women are still a tiny minority (my 'informed guess is around 1 in 3,000 of the population) most women have not (knowingly at least) met a trans woman or man. Characterisations like you have set out just dont represent trans women or men and the (frankly ridiculous) attempt to split LG&B from T also do not reflect the overwhelming support I have had from LG&B folk who recognise that minorities who might be subject to prejudice are better working together.

Oh, and just a look back at the title of this thread. As I understand matters there are 60 prisoners who are or who identify as trans women kept on the female prison estate at the moment who have convictions for sexual offences (unspecified). How many of these are 'child rapists'? Any? Let me be clear that this is a genuine request for evidence. If the answer is 'that information is unknown', then why was the question to Lisa Nandy phrased as it was? Would I be wrong in suspecting attempt to weaponise trans women?

This completely alien to my experience of trans women.

Someone who advocates for men who identify as women to use female facilities, doesn't encounter opposition from those very transwomen?

Shocking.

There are no comments on the DM article when I looked. Which looks like no one wants to comment, whereas I suspect they have been deleted/turned off?

Could be just that there are so many comments the system can't cope. I notice the Mai Online comments system often goes haywire.

Daily Mail comments are trickling in now.

it doesn't matter what if the number is of prisoners who are or who identify as trans women kept on the female prison estate at the moment who have convictions for sexual offences (unspecified) - so long as that number is less than one.

Is it ok for any rapist or violent offender to be in a female prison, Robin?

then why was the question to Lisa Nandy phrased as it was?
Because it was talking about a specific individual?..

Vanishingly tiny? When I was at secondary school there were (off the top of my head) four male teachers having affairs with female pupils. Honestly, Robin, if you aren't aware of the scale of sexual abuse in the teaching and medical professions, you're probably in the wrong job

Plainly these things happen. I dont know the stats, but given the rareness of trans women and men, and so the obvious fact that miscreants in the professions will be far more numerous, isnt it then remarkable that trans has achieved such a focus rather than campaigning for all men to be excluded from the medial or teaching professions.

But then again, that would be unrealistic - we should deal properly with identified miscreants in the professions rather than tarring everyone with the same brush.

And why shouldnt that be the same for trans women and men? Deal appropriately with miscreants and let the rest of us get on with our lives?

Also, what is the acceptable percentage of child rapists housed in women’s estates before were allowed to show concern?

But you wouldn’t be arguing that we can’t have male doctors, teachers or emergency service workers because a vanishingly tiny proportion of people in those possessions exploit their access to vulnerable individuals?

There are (were?) sex-based Safeguarding principles & policies which protect women & girls in education & health in recognition that males (as a class) represent a significant risk.

For example male doctors are (were?) chaperoned by female HCPs when carrying out intimate examinations or women could request a female.

These Safeguards have though been undermined by trans rights activists who have created policies which mean that those males who identify as women are not bound by the same requirements.

see NASUWT 2017 Trans Equality in Schools and Colleges
Advice and Guidance for Teachers and Leaders
www.nasuwt.org.uk/uploads/assets/uploaded/085066bb-c224-40de-b79e2a1358801ee9.pdf

NHS
2017 'NHS trust apologises to woman after 'nurse with stubble and deep voice' tried to take smear test'
inews.co.uk/news/health/nhs-woman-transgender-nurse-smear-test-515660]]

2018 'Women ‘risk health over trans NHS workers fear’
Campaigners have raised concerns that a new policy which allows male doctors to self-identify as female is deterring vulnerable women from visiting gynaecologists.'
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/women-risk-health-over-trans-nhs-workers-fear-5dvz86f2l?shareToken=d36620f36af8eee2d311475deac987eb&wgu=270525_54264_1581945112933_8fef0c29c2&wgexpiry=1589721112&utm_source=planit&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_content=22278

2019
'Patient branded transphobic after asking for female medic
A clinic has apologised over its reaction to a letter from a rape survivor who wanted a woman to carry out her breast screening'

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/patient-branded-transphobic-after-asking-for-female-medic-3jh3snddt

Would I be wrong in suspecting attempt to weaponise trans women?

Stop making women’s issues about trans people. They aren’t.

We don’t women locked in with rapey penis people, especially as women are likely to be incarcerated for shit like non payment of TV licenses or shoplifting.

We don’t care if the rapey penis person is trans or not. We care about the women.

But then again, that would be unrealistic - we should deal properly with identified miscreants in the professions rather than tarring everyone with the same brush.

And why shouldnt that be the same for trans women and men? Deal appropriately with miscreants and let the rest of us get on with our lives?

Safeguarding frameworks identify risks & are intended to protect children & Vulnerable Adults.

Whilst recognising it is impossible to remove all risk.

Wherever there are loopholes in Safeguarding frameworks predatory males will exploit them.

Transwomen, 'miscreants', male teachers, male doctors. They're all male. That's the common denominator.

The only cohort of humans who represent significantly less risk is women.

Hence why male doctors now have to ask if you want a chaperone. And why women can ask for women HCPs. Something that is frequently considered transphobic.

Deal appropriately with miscreants and let the rest of us get on with our lives?

Sexual offences as we all know hardly ever result in a prosecution. Police dont even record these crimes properly half the time. You can literally record your own raoe have the suspect Congress over whatsapp and they still walk free. And that's with people who have access and money for lawyers etc.

What chance does an a used woman in prison with zero finances , and I'm many cases brain.damage from.domestic violence have?

Hence the safeguarding feature of no men.

It's why as pointed out above male drs have chaperoned for intimate examination. It's why many teachers dont allow themselves to ever be alone with a student. Why doors are left open. The ones who object to these safeguarding policies are the very ones we should be watching out for because anyone with nothing to hide knows that checks and policies are not personal

Confess over WhatsApp

I don't understand what you are saying Robin?

Do you think that a violent male sex offender should be housed in a female prison if he says he identifies as a woman?

Yes or no?

And dr Thorne being investigated for talking about safeguarding.

Anyone preventing identification & discussion of possible Safeguarding issues should be considered to potentially represent an additional direct/indirect risk.

I dont know the stats, but given the rareness of trans women and men, and so the obvious fact that miscreants in the professions will be far more numerous, isnt it then remarkable that trans has achieved such a focus rather than campaigning for all men to be excluded from the medial or teaching professions.

I really don't know what point you're trying to make here. Has anyone said that trans people should be excluded from the medical or teaching professions?

How many of these are 'child rapists'? Any? Let me be clear that this is a genuine request for evidence. If the answer is 'that information is unknown', then why was the question to Lisa Nandy phrased as it was? Would I be wrong in suspecting attempt to weaponise trans women?

The question was about a specific child rapist who now identifies as a woman. Under self ID, with the current prison policy to place prisoners according to their legally recognised sex, this particular child rapist would be placed in a women's prison.

Do you think child rapists should be allowed to self-identify their way into women's prisons? Lisa Nandy does.

LangCleg Thu 21-Feb-19 wrote:

"How did the scandal of TV entertainers grooming and exploiting children get so bad before anything was done?

How did the scandal of Catholic priests grooming and exploiting children get so bad before anything was done?

How did the scandal of on-street gangs grooming and exploiting children get so bad before anything was done?

Because if you create a sacred caste of any group and silence anyone asking questions about individuals on behalf of the sacred caste, abusers will see, infiltrate, and groom and exploit children. That''s how.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3512177-Julia-Long-asking-Munro-Bergdorf-about-child-exploitation?pg=12