Lisa Nandy says child rapists should be in women’s prisons if they identify as female

[RoyalCorgi]

Extraordinary.

www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=oUon9j1zJ_E&

I love Julia Long as well. She so clearly asks the questions which expose the 'logic' of the trans ideology. She forced Lisa Nandy to publicly take 'TWAW' to its batshit conclusion for everyone to see. I just cannot see how people within Labour like Owen Jones and his ilk can continue to defend this when it's being so clearly exposed.

Julia Long did the exact same to Munroe Bergdorf as well about the 'drag kid' Desmond is Amazing. It is fucking glorious to watch! I just love her!

Because if you create a sacred caste of any group and silence anyone asking questions about individuals on behalf of the sacred caste, abusers will see, infiltrate, and groom and exploit children.

THIS - it needs to be repeated over and over and over.

It's not about saying that all trans people are predators. In the same way that not all priests are predators, not all charity workers are predators, not all 'pillars of the community' are predators.

It's about the fact that history has shown time and again that if you create a group of people who cannot be questioned, cannot be scrutinised, cannot be held to account - then that is an absolute magnet to people who want to cause harm. Because they know they will be protected.

I don't get how this is so hard for people to understand?

Dr Julia Long's speech:
'Transgenderism & Lesbian Erasure '
August 2018

I haven't read the whole thread, sorry, so it's probably already been said, but Jesus, the gall of her claiming that certain issues are too divisive and a flash point AFTER she's signed a pledge that brand women's groups hate groups, and wanting their followers expelled from the Labour party. How dare she attempt to take the "rational" moral highground when she has signed something like that??

Transwoman in a cat c prison:

*I see a lot of people writing in to say how great their prison is for transgenders, so I’m writing to tell you about Littlehey.

There is a big trans’ population here – or is there? This is a predominately sex offender prison, and it is with utter disgust and concern as a non-sex offender trans’ prisoner that I find anyone can and does say they are trans’, just so they can continue in their sexual deviant ways, such as cross-dressing or avoiding having to do the SOTP programme because they become classed as females.

The sickest part of this is that the system can do sod-all about these trans’ bandwagon-jumpers, because the policy states they must be treated as transgender prisoners ‘if they say they are’. I have had staff and other inmates express their disgust to me (a genuine trans’ prisoner) over this behaviour.
You do not have to be transgender here, you only have to say you are and you do not even have to ‘live in role’. But on the flipside, if you are trans’ and are a slightly better-looking female than others, you get nothing but negativity and bitterness from those not quite able to carry off looking female. So if you want to be able to avoid addressing your offending behaviour, come to HMP Littlehey and ‘go trans’’, if you enjoy unwanted sexual attention, or want to be slated by your own trans’ community, then come here.

You are fooling no one but yourself by living a lie, and it is trans-imposters who give real transgender people a bad name, in and out of prison. To genuine trans’ people – stay strong.*

insidetime.org/trans-imposters/

Male teachers/doctors/nurses/insert strawman here all
-Go through years of professional training
-have thorough background checks
-have to abide by professional codes of conduct
-have thorough complaints processes
-are generally working in settings with other professionals who are able to observe their behaviour.

These measures aren't perfect and they sometimes fail, but which of these safeguarding measures are available to a teenage girl who finds herslef faced with a penis in an changing room? Or the abused woman sharing her prison cell with a male? Or the injured woman who finds herself sharing a 4 bed bay with a male? If the male identifies as a TW, the answer is none.

There is also the element that having men in these professions benefits women overall (there would be major shortages of doctors/teachers if there were no males, it's also beneficical for children to see that caring roles aren't exclusively female, and so on)

What is the benefit to females of having men in their sex segregated safe spaces?

The question was about a specific child rapist who now identifies as a woman. Under self ID, with the current prison policy to place prisoners according to their legally recognised sex, this particular child rapist would be placed in a women's prison.

So the argument is based on the need to manage a single especially challenging prisoner trumping the rights of 12 to 20,000 law abiding citizens?

Sledgehammer, nut...

No, the argument is based on a mechanism that allows anyone who says they are trans to be transferred to a female prison. Including child rapists, adult rapists, and sex offenders.

Do you any idea how it looks, Robin when you repeatedly wander into a conversation about women being incarcerated with rapists to ask, 'But what about me and my friends'?

No the question was asked about a very specific person so that nobody could say "but it wouldn't happen/they don't exist" which is what has been happening when women raised the possibility. Now the possibility is real and it's still not enough. And it isn't only one, she just named one in the framing of the question.

How many is enough Robin? How many women have to be harmed for it to be enough for you?

What do you think safeguarding is.

It works on the assumption that nothing/no one is safe

Those who are safe dont mind being checked they have nothing to hide. And understand why these policies exist.

What we a absolutely cannot afford to do is decide people are "to nice" to check them or worry about hurting feelings etc.

It's not personal theres no need for feeling like a victin or being paranoid it's all about stopping you from doing something.

So the argument is based on

What argument are you referring to? I asked you a question:
Do you think child rapists should be allowed to self-identify their way into women's prisons?

What is your answer to my question?

The question was about a single prisoner, not the argument.

It's not just one off people who are causing the problems.

Identifying as a woman is common in prison, especially among sex offenders.

Make a statement that all twaw under self identification and how on earth do you manage the outcome?

Robin, are you trying to claim women don't want you to use their toilets because a rapist has been transferred to a female prison?

Because you're not doing very well at communicating any of your points, to be honest.

Repeating this, by a TW in prison:

There is a big trans’ population here – or is there? This is a predominately sex offender prison, and it is with utter disgust and concern as a non-sex offender trans’ prisoner that I find anyone can and does say they are trans’, just so they can continue in their sexual deviant ways, such as cross-dressing or avoiding having to do the SOTP programme because they become classed as females.

trumping the rights of 12 to 20,000 law abiding citizens?

How will prison policy affect non-offenders?

I think it might be down to communication skills SpartacusLangClegicus. Or just the fact that the ideology itself is so incoherent and contradictory.

And why shouldnt that be the same for trans women and men? Deal appropriately with miscreants and let the rest of us get on with our lives?

Well that is what we're arguing for, really. Transwomen are male, men are male, and we argue for single sex spaces that exclude all males. Safeguarding acts to give women and girls the best chance of safety and privacy, which has always been single sex facilities - whether it be toilets or prisons.

We don't allow men in to these spaces, despite only a small number being "miscreants" as you call it - we exclude them all. We need to exclude all males, including transwomen, to uphold women's single sex spaces.

Robin Imagine you are in a room and there's a tiger in the corner. Someone you don't know has told you it's fine, the tiger is friendly, they are no threat to you. Do you think you'd just relax and turn your back on it and forget it's there, or would you feel uncomfortable and keep on your guard because you know that tigers have killed people?

That is how lots of us feel about men.

Sledgehammer, nut...

It's called safeguarding. Thankfully most people understand why it needs to exist. The ones who don't are either naive or see it as an obstacle.

Never ceases to amaze that certain people of the class that produce small gametes can be presented with an obviously bad situation for women's safety and rights and repeatedly say "But what about me?"

I see now the attempted toilet distraction failed, we've moved on to airily dismissing the risks of rapists in women's prisons with a combination of stats pulled out of the arse and it-hardly-ever-happens. All coated with that familiar 'But I'm perfectly respectable^'.

Doesn't matter. As has been repeatedly explained, safeguarding is never about just targeting the predators and letting the nice people through. Anyone who thinks 'I'm a good person, safeguarding doesn't apply to me, and it would inconvenience the way I wish to live' is a safeguarding risk, because even if the are indeed good, their cavalier attitude opens up a loophole for the predators to get through.

The answer is no.

@EverardDigby - I think the correct answer is to apologise to the tiger and every other tiger for being just so darned tasty (as it eats your leg off)

So the argument is based on the need to manage a single especially challenging prisoner trumping the rights of 12 to 20,000 law abiding citizens?

Sledgehammer, nut...

No Safeguarding framework responsibilities rather than adult males' assertion of individual rights

James Morton (Scottish Trans Alliance) explained why lobbying for changes in Safeguarding policies to enable male prisoners to self-id was a strategic decision taken by trans rights activists.

19th September 2019 STILLTish's article:
'Ministry of Justice: Updated Policy on caring for Transgender Prisoners.'
(extract)

"Below is a quote 👇 from James Morton, of the Scottish Trans Alliance, which shows that Female prisoners are the subjects of a dangerous laboratory experiment. James is listed as an author of the Scottish Prisons Policy which deals with Transgender Prisoners. As James is a lobbyist for Trans Rights there is only one group at the forefront of the policy. Spoiler. Its not Women.

‘We strategized – we strategized – that by working intensively with the Scottish Prison Service to support them to include trans women as women on a self-declaration basis within very challenging circumstances, we would be able to ensure that all other public services should be able to do likewise’.

The above quote is illustrative of a complete disregard for the female prison population; one of the most vulnerable groups in our society. Domestic violence refuges, rape crisis centres and female prisons do seem to figure prominently in the targeted locations. Captive females are being targeted for this new branch of Men’s rights activism." (continues)
gendercriticalwoman.wordpress.com/2019/09/19/ministry-of-justice-new-policy-on-caring-for-transgender-prisoners/