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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Line Manager just "come out" as Non-binary

532 replies

SpinningTooFastWantToGetOff · 07/02/2020 18:39

My line-manager emailed everyone in the office last week to say she was non-binary and we should use they/them pro-nouns.
Today I inadvertently called her she in an email to a colleague in another office, but line-manager was copied in, plus her line-manager. Are you keeping up? Confused
My line-manager responded to the email and added at the bottom a reminder about her pro-nouns.
I do not believe in the gender identity ideology and so object to being told to speak in an unnatural and incorrect way, but what I am incandescent about is being called out in front of 2 other colleagues.
Am I over reacting?

OP posts:
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leafyskyline · 08/02/2020 08:37

I think you're approaching this in a very foolish way OP.

You seem to have a genuine grievance with your line manager and the way they have undertaken their job over the past 18 months. You haven't mentioned any formal complaints to HR so I'm guessing you haven't made any?

Contact HR listing all your complaints about them as a line manager.

I'd suggest you use her name in any correspondence or you are creating a smokescreen that will undermine any future complaints. There is also no reason to deliberately be rude by calling them what they have asked you not to call them. If you don't like saying 'they' stick to 'Angela'.

Next time a promotion come up that you think you'd be good at. Apply. Then you'll spare yourself all this bitterness.

Lordfrontpaw · 08/02/2020 08:38

It’s just a bit silly really.

I’m not a girly girl - but I don’t cringe when I’m called ‘She’. Why would I?

Lord help them if they - like me - have colleagues in the southern states of the US. I get called ‘Miss Fu-runt-paaaaawwwww’ on conference calls and it has me in stitches.

Eckhart · 08/02/2020 08:38

@TheProdigalKittensReturn You can request it, as the line manager has done. And you can remind people, as the line manager has done.

People's responses will be their own, and it will be up to you how you choose to deal with them. As the line manager is doing.

Eckhart · 08/02/2020 08:40

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Findumdum1 · 08/02/2020 08:43

This is hilarious: if I were in HR I'd tell you that the Equality Act is irrelevant and you should do what your Line Manager asks you to do, in accordance with your employment contract

I've recently signed a new employment contract and there was nothing in it about doing what my direct line manager says at all times even if they are wrong/having a breakdown/abusive/gone mad. And what about the big boss above him? What if they want me to do something different from my line manager? I cant believe someone could actually think that 😀

NotBadConsidering · 08/02/2020 08:44

it would be rude and unprofessional and dismissive of her life and choices were I to refuse to call her by her chosen name, claim that it was too difficult to remember the name change

Mr, Mrs, Miss, Ms, Dr, Professor, Your Highness (Kittens Wink) etc etc are not pronouns, they are honorifics. They serve to describe the status of a person within society and as a result they are subject to change, often do change, and we are socially conditioned to expect change.

Pronouns are specific to sex, which cannot change, so pronouns can’t change, and as such changing pronouns for a person when their sex remains the same hurts brains, and as much as someone can demand that we get used to it, what they can’t do is expect it to go perfectly every single minute of every single day of their sad, narcissistic lives because the world isn’t like that.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 08/02/2020 08:44

OK, then I am now asking to be addressed (by those arguing that the line manager is in the right) as Your Highness. Why would anyone not comply, if they truly believe that it's only fair to call people what they ask to be called?

T0tallyFuckedUpFamily · 08/02/2020 08:46

It is attention seeking shite TARSCOUT and one of the great things about getting older, is the fact that we can see this navel gazing, self obsession nonsense, for what it is. I think that these tossers don’t have any genuine problems in their lives and need to create/invent some, so they don’t miss out on any ‘attention’.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 08/02/2020 08:47

I am 9 people's direct line manager. Can I really tell them to do things and they have to by law, regardless of what specifically I'm telling them? That is certainly not what the law says anywhere I've ever lived.

Eckhart · 08/02/2020 08:47

That's good with me, @YourHighness. I respect your preference. Hopefully I won't forget and accidentally call you by your old name, but remind me if I do until I've got in the habit.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 08/02/2020 08:52

I mean, let's imagine how this would play out.

"Go get me a cup of coffee"

"Of course, respected manager of mine"

"And also the skulls of my enemies, and a gram of cocaine, and Dave from marketing's new car"

"Indeed, mistress, as you command!"

TheMemoryLingers · 08/02/2020 08:55

It is attention seeking shite TARSCOUT and one of the great things about getting older, is the fact that we can see this navel gazing, self obsession nonsense, for what it is.

I've found the opposite is true. As I've aged, I've become more tolerant of other people's needs and less inclined to dismiss those who are asking for support in some way as 'attention seekers'.

74NewStreet · 08/02/2020 08:57

You really think demanding to be addressed in a certain way is seeking support?

T0tallyFuckedUpFamily · 08/02/2020 08:58

Good for you, but I prefer to recognise reality and won’t be bullied into using incorrect pronouns in order to appear ‘tolerant’, when I see no tolerance being given in return.

Findumdum1 · 08/02/2020 09:00

No-one NEEDS to be called thet instead of her when people are talking about them.

People need food, water, air, affection, human contact, a job, to feel valued I'm with totallyfuckedupdamily. This kind of thing is privileged people without much to really worry about making up drama to make themselves feel more special. You don't see homeless people demanding you call them they as you walk past. People in slum villages aren't deciding they are a ze instead of a he.

TheMemoryLingers · 08/02/2020 09:01

Where has the OP said she's been bullied? Being asked to use someone's preferred pronouns and reminded of them when they've been forgotten isn't 'bullying'.

Findumdum1 · 08/02/2020 09:02

Yes it is if the OP feels bullied into doing it, which she clearly does. Tolerance does indeed cut both ways.

Xanthangum · 08/02/2020 09:05

I, me, mine

Go with this one, OP, and if anyone pulls you up on it you could always quote the Bhagavad Gita - say it is a reminder that you are trying to renounce the ego and achieve enlightenment.

For example, 2:71-72 can be translated as "They are forever free who renounce all selfish desires and break away from the ego-cage of 'I', 'me' and 'mine' to be united with the Lord. This is the supreme state. Attain to this, and pass from death to immortality."

NotBadConsidering · 08/02/2020 09:05

And coming back to the married name example, the correct analogy would be:

“Hi Mary, you sent a memo to me and addressed as Miss Narcissa Malfoy, but I got married a few weeks ago. It’s actually Mrs Narcissa Malfoy.”

“Oh did I? Sorry! Didn’t know you got married! Hard to keep up with everything I guess.”

“I’ve notified HR, please don’t do it again or there may be consequences.”

Shock

Eckhart · 08/02/2020 09:05

Why are lots of you getting all insulty because someone has requested they be referred to as something different from the 'norm', and issued a reminder? Unless I've missed something, there's been no bullying.

It's like 'This person is asking them to call us 'them'... WHAT A FUCKING ARSE BADGER!!!'

I don't get it. Who cares? We've got a gender neutral person in our office and everybody just said 'Oh, ok then' and tries to get it right. Nobody got upset about it.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 08/02/2020 09:08

In reality people are getting all pisstake-y because the demands being made of the OP are very silly.

TheMemoryLingers · 08/02/2020 09:10

Yes it is if the OP feels bullied into doing it, which she clearly does.

If you're using that kind of argument, you could equally well say the line manager might feel ignoring their pronouns is a form of bullying.

Asking someone to do something, and reminding them when they forget, is not 'bullying' by any stretch of the imagination.

Findumdum1 · 08/02/2020 09:12

but what I am incandescent about is being called out in front of 2 other colleagues.

That's bullying in my workplace. Do you feel bullied OP?

HandsOffMyLangCleg · 08/02/2020 09:13

We've got a gender neutral person in our office

No you haven't.

feelingverylazytoday · 08/02/2020 09:14

Eckhart probably because people are getting fed up of being expected to pander to this kind of immature attention seeking behaviour.

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