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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Keir Starmer webchat

252 replies

LangClegsOpinionIsNoted · 31/01/2020 14:34

Can we work together to create a question that includes as many key points as possible, so that we don't get locked out of the discussion as we did on the Jess Phillips one?

Jess ignored my "what is your definition of woman?" question, I don't know if KS would dare answer it either.

OP posts:
EleanorScott · 03/02/2020 20:55

Consider it corrected @BuzzShitbagBobbly (what a beautiful name, I have to say Grin )

zanahoria · 03/02/2020 21:11

" Does anyone see any ground for hope in the fact that he did not say trans women are women?"

I do in that he is trying fo avoid the subject, a bit cowardly but better than a full on believer.

My guess is that if he were leader he would not raise the issue of GRA reform enthusiastically.

Tombakersscarf · 03/02/2020 22:07

I didn't come away with any respect for him at all after that. Total cop out.
I used to feel a bit like pp, that other feminist issues were being overlooked - but once we have no power to define our sex anymore there is no feminism.

LangClegsInSpace · 03/02/2020 22:11

That's a brilliant blog post Eleanor.

No matter who any of us voted for, the MP who got in in our constituency is the person whose job it is to represent us in parliament. Even if we think they are an arsehole and they think we are arseholes their job is to represent us.

The government said they would investigate why there has been a 4000+% rise in the number of girls referred to GIDS and they have not done so.

We should all contact our MPs, of whatever party, whether we voted for them or not, and ask what is happening with this inquiry. We can also ask them to question relevant ministers on our behalf.

They don't have to support any cause or position that we ask them to but they should chase up factual information for us regardless.

While we're at it we can also ask them to chase up the GRA consultation and ask when the 100,000+ responses will be published. It would be good if this extensive written evidence and the government response were available before the Scottish consultation closes.

BlueHarry · 03/02/2020 22:16

I missed the webchat, but if I had the chance to speak to someone in the know, I'd want to ask questions like:

What human rights are being denied to trans people currently, and how would this be resolved by the proposed GRA reforms?

I believe that generally laws are formed/reformed with a great deal of care, discussion and open debate. Why on this subject, does that seem to be discouraged? Is it because having a conversation about the proposed reforms and any potential safe guarding risks, is considered an infringement of the human rights of trans people? If so, why?

Is it legal that many companies and institutions are actually using an incorrect version of the Equalities Act, where they have removed the protected characteristic of "sex" and replacing it with "gender"? Why is this allowed to happen? Can we just make up the law as we see fit now?

And finally, what about women's right to not be discriminated on the basis of our sex, and how does that square with the idea that a woman is anyone who feels like one?

DuLANGMondeFOREVER · 03/02/2020 22:22

Excellent blog.

Were you around for the NSPCC Webchat debacle, Eleanor? Because that was the clearest case of no longer giving a rats arse about the well-being of children that I have ever witnessed.

DuLANGMondeFOREVER · 03/02/2020 22:27

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3353658-AIBU-to-be-shocked-that-the-NSPCC-cancelled-their-Facebook-Live-session-with-Mumsnetters-because-they-didnt-like-the-questions-That-they-cant-explain-why-they-arent-putting-children-in-danger

I can still barely believe the NSPCC bailed like that.

Less than a year later, of course, they were defending Munroe Bergdorf soliciting private messages from gender confused minors and trying to convince us all that wanking in the NSPCC work toilets in fetish gear was A-OK.

DuLANGMondeFOREVER · 03/02/2020 22:47

That’s the one. They didn’t show up to participate.

EleanorScott · 03/02/2020 22:56

I do remember it and I'm going to re-read it.

MrsSnippyPants · 03/02/2020 22:57

TeacupDrama Some of us are doing exactly that, by joining the party, getting involved, and trying to start a grass roots movement as well as co-ordinating our lobbying of MPs and ministers.
If anyone wants to help, just DM me.
As you say, we have to deal with the government we have.

GeneticTest · 03/02/2020 23:02

Just seconding the ‘write to your mp’

I work for one. We don’t get a lot of correspondence about this.

Keep writing!

GeneticTest · 03/02/2020 23:03

Eleanor I liked your blog.

Melroses · 03/02/2020 23:11

I see the webchat went as well as expected, sadly Sad

Just seconding the ‘write to your mp

Mine is conservative, but I will do that because it needs to be kept in the consciousness of the politicians, even when they agree.

Clymene · 04/02/2020 09:43

My mp is conservative but I wrote to him during the consultation and he was against self ID.

ThinEndoftheWedge · 04/02/2020 09:59

@GeneticTest

Hi, I’m going to see my MP about the Self ID, hate crime document for schools etc.

I don’t know my MP’s views on the subject.

Any advice on how to approach the subject/ get the best out of the meeting.

There is so much to bring up - but I need to distil my concerns, be clear and specific.

Your advice would be helpful, thanks!

Tombakersscarf · 04/02/2020 10:08

Mine is LibDem and on record as saying TWAW.

Lordfrontpaw · 04/02/2020 10:12

Ask for evidence.

ThinEndoftheWedge · 04/02/2020 10:18

@Tombakersscarf

Is it worth visiting their surgery and asking exactly how one human being who - if everything works properly- is designed to provide an egg, carry a pregnancy over 9 months and give birth can transform into the form of human being who - if everything works properly - is designed to provide sperm and impregnate.

What is the actual mechanism for this transition?

When was it invented and by whom?

Also, to be one’s true self - how can it require cutting off or cutting out healthy tissue and organs?

Tombakersscarf · 04/02/2020 10:39

I have emailed her already got the usual meaningless response.

ThinEndoftheWedge · 04/02/2020 10:55

meaningless

Sums up the Lib Dems I suppose ;)

Lordfrontpaw · 04/02/2020 11:48

When I get a ‘meaningless’ email I correct it, add questions and comments [in square brackets in red] and send it back.

drspouse · 04/02/2020 12:05

most women who suffer DV are not at the hands of a trans for example. GM. Not a trans issue. Discrimination at work. Rape etc etc

I was at the UCL conference on Sat and it was amazing to be able to discuss these as well as issues around self-ID, transgender issues as well.
But you are seriously deluding yourself if you think that women are free to discuss these - and work for those who suffer from them - just as they wish without men who identify as women muscling in.

Want a DV shelter away from men? Tough, men who identify as women want in.
Want to discuss FGM and help stop it? Tough, it's transphobic to call female genitals "female".
Want to measure discrimination against women at work? Or discuss your experiences in a female only group? Tough, the statistics and the groups must now contain men who identify as women.
Want to set up a rape crisis line? Tough, you won't get funding unless you allow men who identify as women to work on the helplines and attend the victims' groups.

PhonicTheHedgehog · 04/02/2020 12:49

If your MP is Kier Starmer what would you write to him though?

Lordfrontpaw · 04/02/2020 13:21

Ok gang - just saw this: Webchat with Labour leadership contender Emily Thornberry MP on Wednesday February 5 at 12.30pm.