Keir Starmer webchat

[LangClegsOpinionIsNoted]

Can we work together to create a question that includes as many key points as possible, so that we don't get locked out of the discussion as we did on the Jess Phillips one?

Jess ignored my "what is your definition of woman?" question, I don't know if KS would dare answer it either.

But what we need right now is a respectful dialogue that doesn’t pit one set of concerns against others. If elected leader, that’s a dialogue I would want to help facilitate

This confirms everything I have thought about KS, ever since his stint as DPP.

What is the point of these webchats when the Qs posters presumably want answered just go poof?

Surely the people coming on would prefer to see all the Qs, read the room and decide for themselves what to answer?

Do they get to see the posts MNHQ in its wisdom has elected to delete?

I'd be less annoyed if he wasn't perfectly happy to talk about 'women and girls' in the previous questions but absolutely unwilling to talk about them or do anything except make it clear that males are front and centre and he's a good boy in ANY area where female needs are potentially under threat.

Keeps mentioning human rights. Not sure he's clicked that females are also human.

I'm disappointed too. Thought he was going to be the best of a bad bunch. Much worse than I thought.

I'm more and more convinced we just need to give up trying with labour. They are in the electoral wilderness, they won't be in power for at least a other decade. KS, or anybody else for that matter, can't say anything other than "TWAW" and "TRAHR" without getting slaughtered by their own party.

But you know what? The Tories have a stonking great majority. They don't need labour to cooperate in parliament. We need to focus on the Tory party and leave the left to eat itself.

a respectful dialogue that doesn’t pit one set of concerns against others.

How exactly are you going to 'hold a respectful dialogue' or indeed do anything functionally productive at all, if you won't acknowledge conflicting concerns, never mind listen to them?

There are conflicting needs here. There are demands for things that will damage women. Not listening to anything but nice is going to achieve precisely zero. And reflects an alarming lack of backbone.

At my most optimistic, I want to give him the benefit of the doubt. It seems (is?) cowardly, but he wants to get elected. He needs the wokebros onside. He's sitting on the fence and trying to throw out just enough trans-platitudes to get elected. (Trans rights are human rights, most oppressed etc. Won't mention boring old women.) He didn't, though, say TWAW did he?

Well that was a waste of time.
So the labour party don't want my vote.

But you know what? The Tories have a stonking great majority. They don't need labour to cooperate in parliament. We need to focus on the Tory party and leave the left to eat itself

Exactly. And the lobbying started the day after the election. If ever there was a time to write to MPs with concerns about the GRA? It's now. The Tories are just as vulnerable to capitulation to aggressive lobbying as any one else

I give up. Toyed with the idea of re joining, but there's no respect for women here. Not voting for mealy-mouthed cowards.

Oh, dear. that didn't go well, did it? He doesn't want our votes I suspect.

So we’re all down with the women and girls, right up to the point of defining exactly who that is. And acknowledging their rights. Then it’s all up for facilitating discussion with a BIG reminder about who the priority is.

I don’t think Keir needs to answer the biscuit question. It’s clear he prefers a fudge.

secure and affordable accommodation should be a basic human right.

Ooh look at the clarity.

Now what do you mean by 'trans rights are human rights' Kier?

• The right to change your legal data to something you prefer rather than objective reality?
• The right to access spaces and resources reserved for a group of society with a characteristic you don't actually possess?
• The right to be treated as someone/something you objectively are not even when it damages the class of people you've self identified into?
• The right to compelled speech and enforced lying/enforced belief from others - ie the right to trump ACTUAL human rights of others?

How is any of the above 'human rights' Kier? Where's that written?

It's not that he doesn't recognize conflicting rights, it's that he won't acknowledge them because then he would have to admit who is getting chucked under the bus to assuage an influential, aggressive lobby which has colonised the Labour party

One of the take homes for me from the wpuk conference was the barrister Julian Norman reciting off exactly what our human rights are. I.e it's what the state can do to you not what people can do to each other.
So obviously there is no question of trans rights being human rights. The question is of organisations maintaining single sex provisions by applying the equality act correctly.
Sorry if this is an obvious point but it's really helped me clarify my thoughts x

His answer to most of the questions posed was wish-washy, sitting on the fence.

Just read a couple more replies. Everything's a right or a human right. Someone get him onto the subject of nurseries and see if playdough is a human right?

Human rights are an actual thing, you can't just make them up at will. And with rights come responsibilities, I'm not hearing any mention of that bit.

My God Labour have lost it.

Thank you - I'm becoming increasingly concern by the shutting down of political discussion, whether in meetings or on social media by abuse and intimidation. It must be possible to have a political discussion where people profoundly disagree in a constructive and respectful way. I have long been a champion of free speech and always adopted the approach set out in international human rights instruments (which I spent my time as a lawyer promoting), which treat freedom of speech as a right and not a freedom, and sets out the limited circumstances in which free speech can be curtailed, which is where it's lawful, necessary and proportionate to do so.

Who actually says that humans shouldn't have human rights - any more than cats, dogs and bats should have rights? It means nothing.

I loathe mantra politics.

'What’s your favourite biscuit?' Is this a joke?

No really, we have access to a potential leader of the opposition - and possible PM and this is the burning issue of the day? I'm praying this was merely high sarcasm.

I'm sorry but that's just totally waffle with no substance. I don't just mean on the feminist issues - this is all pussyfooting,.

Soundbites that don't really SAY anything just don't cut it. And moderators swiftly vanishing questions is ... well. I see why LangCleg was vanished. I see.

Labour seem determined to keep themselves politically irrelevant for the foreseable future. A damn shame.

Discussion closed.

I was trying to post:

'I'm becoming increasingly concern by the shutting down of political discussion,

What about all the questions being deleted here, then? Does that worry you? Do you wonder what they're all about, or why they matter to women?

Stealth's post was there for a few seconds.

If we are going to come up with a decent set of questions we need to make sure there's no wriggle room.

It was waffle waffle waffle

Jeeeeeeeeeeeeez

We need Joanna cherry on. For a chat