Lang Cleg 2

[TiredofthisBSbutIstandwithLang]

New thread as we got to 1000.

Lang hardly ever used to get deleted. I've been watching them build up for a while now, even though she hadn't changed her posting style. I would love MNHQ to tell us how many reports they were getting about her by the end.

I think Justine said 60 deletions? But not how many reports. But it is absolutely clear LangCleg was a target.

I am sure the confusion over ‘monitors’ and ‘moderators’ is behind this.

I don’t want the mod team to work in a hostile environment. And I am sure it is bloody difficult some days.

But there seems to be no clarity over what leads to a temporary suspension (the ‘sin bin’ approach) and what is a permanent ban.

Usually in other environments there’s an escalation of seriousness e.g. verbal warning, written warning, suspension, termination. I know MN is not a job, or a sports game, it’s a chat forum - we have no ‘rights’ to be upheld and MN make the rules.

But it feels like really shitty treatment.

Thank you for posting that MNer2000. Good to read.

Who has “verbally abused members of staff”?

Have you read Justine's posts?

Usually in other environments there’s an escalation of seriousness e.g. verbal warning, written warning, suspension, termination

Pretty clear there was "a written warning" going by Justine's comment here
we have emailed many times to politely request that she post within our rules

Going back to Hebe being lied about on Twitter.

I'm sure most people's gut instinct was to know there was no way she was talking to random TRAs. They are strangers to the truth at every turn. Plus she's just not like that.

But, because of the feeling of the rug being pulled out from under you, at the slightest misstep, one tends to stop relying on one's gut instinct, despite it being born of experience.

I'm pretty certain I stay within the rules, but i'll still look at something sometimes and think is it, or isn't it? And quite honestly be almost unable to tell.

It's really highlighted when you're talking about a man, any random man, who is not trans, and you blithely just say he, his, him.

It sometimes feels odd. And that's when you realise quite how constrained you've been.

I'm not suggesting mumsnet overturn that particular rule, because it's one of the most visible transgressions that will get them pounced on.

But I really wish there could be a discussion over the process.

Today’s request to bring Lang back.
It’s a cult, Justine.
Don’t bow down to it.

Yes Datun I really didn’t want to believe it, and I hope Hebe is ok and I apologise if any of my posts about it were accusatory (I don’t think they were) but I agree you start doubting yourself, which is what TRAs and certain posters want of course.

Take for example the latest Yaniv thread. I have correctly sexed that person in my pronoun use on previous threads and called that person a horrible predator of the accurate sex because I find that person utterly vile, without posts being removed. I was going to post the same on the latest thread but in this environment, with certain people floating around, I can’t be sure that they won’t take it upon themselves to see an opportunity to report even despite Yaniv’s vileness.

It’s a shame, but I sadly suspect MNHQ is telling the truth on this

I am always amazed at how so many people seem complicit in denying the reality - the proven reality (Rotherham, Manchester, Savile, Challenor etc etc) - of that last point. It's like a lot of people want to pretend paedophiles don't exist. It's chilling.

Manchester Evening News interview with Maggie Oliver
14 JAN 2020
'This is the truth': Why the detective who blew the whistle on GMP’s child abuse failures has been vindicated once and for all'

(extract)
“I feel completely vindicated,” she says of today’s report, which shows the force did indeed close down the operation knowing full well that scores of potential paedophiles were preying on vulnerable girls in south Manchester, as she had always claimed.

“It’s a very momentous day for me, both personally and actually publicly - because I’ve always known I’ve spoken the truth.

“The question that keeps coming back into my head is: what is the cost? What about all the children who’ve been left, sacrificed to save money and to protect the organisation?”

GMP don’t like Maggie Oliver. Both in private and on occasion in public, they have been dismissive of her claims. She says she has always been treated as ‘emotional’.

“They just said I was a woman and I had been bereaved,” she says of her treatment, but believes that it is a symptom of both male power and institutional failure." (continues)
www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/this-truth-detective-who-blew-17562787

this is why we have to talk about Safeguarding every day

Yes 60 deletions but nothing about how many reports or the timescale and pattern. That's what would be interesting I think.

Obviously I don't know what Lang said to mods in private emails but I do know that her typical posting style was direct but polite. I think that if she can get end up getting banned then it could happen to any of us.

But what's good is that whenever this happens, more new people pop up and sometimes really good posters reappear, like R0w with her 'cut and pastes' It gives you a sense of how many are lurking and learning and it makes a nonsense of the notion that they're just a handful of us. All we can do is keep on talking -that's what really drives the monitors wild.

Sorry it took me so long to type that post that the thread's moved on!

And with regards to Yaniv, the only way anyone would report misgendering that person is because the “cause” is more important that integrity, in much the same way that people were determined to still call Karen White “she” even after he sexually assaulted women with his penis.

At least MNHQ let us have that one

I was wondering whether perhaps another term for the external busybodies could be considered? May I suggest “the Clypes” as a much better description?

Actually, I quite like ‘external busybodies’. No second guessing that term!

What about the Cranks? Joss (waves!) loves that word. If Justine got a pound for every time Joss tweeted the word “crank” she could tell those twitchy advertisers where to go.

Joss really needs to work on an expanded vocabulary.

but I agree you start doubting yourself,

That's it notbad. Exactly it.

When you're suddenly in an environment without constraints, the conversation flows completely naturally and no one thinks you're odd, weird, attacking, abusive, or anything. And I'm talking about the general public, not a room full of radical feminists.

You can make your point, get to the nub of the issue, and just keep talking. Whereas this way, you're going down cul-de-sacs, dead ends, stepping on and off the pavement, with no idea which way the traffic is coming.

What is striking, is I'm pretty certain the moderators have exactly the same experience.

We are all at it. and if one can just step outside for one second the madness is obvious.

Many posters are pointing out that it is easy to confuse mentions of board monitors with board moderators. I was wondering whether perhaps another term for the external busybodies could be considered?

There are (as always) disrupters within as well as without.

That's it exactly Datun. I've stayed quiet because I'm gutted about this frankly, but I came on to say that I feel exactly the same.

I've had a strike when I've felt I have stayed within the rules and as a result I've been confused and cautious and now how I phrase things in day to day conversation is different how I frame things here.

Mumsnetspeak.

Lang's ban, after Orchid and all those who went before them...IDK, it's really making me think.

And with regards to safeguarding, I am positive that there is targeting of posts that point out the realities of puberty blockers, cross sex hormones and surgery and their effects on children. There is someone out there who really doesn’t want those facts stated in black and white for all to read. I don’t know who that might be...but it’s a safeguarding issue that there is a concerted effort to suppress what is being done to children.

“The Monitors” came from the Vice article linked earlier, as that is how the people doing this reporting describe it themselves:

...Christine, the mother of a trans child and also part of the network that regularly monitors Mumsnet. (Christine’s name has been changed for privacy reasons.)

Perhaps “the Network” would be clearer? Or “the Christines”?

But is moderating FWR a more miserable experience than moderating AIBU?

I'd imagine it is given the depressing abusive comments about trans people they regularly have to deal with.

Monitoring is regulatory as well as observational.

I'd imagine it is given the depressing abusive comments about trans people they regularly have to deal with.

..that you cannot point to/link to because there aren't any.

Just saying something over and over doesn't actually make it true, tho of course it works on some people. I get that.

I'd imagine it is given the depressing abusive comments about trans people they regularly have to deal with.

Not everyone thinks transgenderism is the be all and end all of everything, shocking though it may be to you.