Lang Cleg 2

[TiredofthisBSbutIstandwithLang]

New thread as we got to 1000.

Feelz over realz.

A lot of that going about. Especially when it’s male feelz.

We all know that one sex perceives women’s speech differently than the other.

@bd67thSaysReinstateLangCleg I have no idea, it's from Right Wing Women and made sense to me at the time but I must have been exhausted, because I fell asleep straight after

Anyone who seriously thinks that avoiding deletions or bans is a straightforward matter of following rules hasn't been watching.

I've been on threads where posts which seemed perfectly reasonable were deleted while others which I thought were taking a risk were left untouched. What was significant was who was posting. Monitors have said they only look at posts that are reported to them. Work it out.

Lang hardly ever used to get deleted. I've been watching them build up for a while now, even though she hadn't changed her posting style. I would love MNHQ to tell us how many reports they were getting about her by the end.

It's been clear for a while that posters get targeted. Once it starts, you could be Mother Theresa and still get taken out. Because of how the rules are.

I have no intention of getting dragged into an argument over the meaning of 'expert' but Lang was clearly a big scalp, as evidenced by these threads and the kerfuffle on Twitter. But we've had similar things before - like many posters I remember Bewilderness leaving, and Maryz. What happens every time is that new people step up and that some of them turn out to be shit hot. TRA monitors watch us and think they're playing Call of Duty but what they're really playing is Whackamole.

My feelings of "kindness" (such as they were) became permanently extinguished after certain folk posted and others failed to denounce the skeleton dancing over the grave a wonderful young woman

I can't do that any more

Nor me @AnyFucker. I very rarely disagree with what you post and this is no exception. #BringBackLangCleg

i read this board every day but don't post much because not my place. You lot are brilliant, I wonder what MN would be without you...

Of course it's your place. We all start off like that, thinking we dn't know enough. I think my first post on here was, 'Yes I am' - or something similar.

Anyone who seriously thinks that avoiding deletions or bans is a straightforward matter of following rules hasn't been watching

Anyone who pretends that avoiding deletions or bans is a straightforward matter of following rules seems to think we can’t see through such bullshit.

Ive been away so i am going to start reading all the threads now

Firstly, im obviously very disappointed that Lang has been banned, but also

It's been clear for a while that posters get targeted. Once it starts, you could be Mother Theresa and still get taken out. Because of how the rules are

Abso-fucking- lutely!! Its really obvious,

People have been deleted for ‘bless’, ‘yawn’ and

And no clue...no hint that there was a possibility of being deleted for using in the manner intended by MNHQ...opening the reporting to non members always struck me as being odd, and it has been said by MNHQ that they will delete if there are too many reports

Off to read the threads now

I'm with AnyFucker on that too. Kindness is in short supply here. I don't see why we should have to take shit like that (dancing on grave) and carry on being kind.

I'm fucking off for a bit, I don't want to be on Mumsnet right now. I'll be back in a week or two. Hopefully to see the return of Lang.

Just another lurking voice in support of LangCleg. I request that she be reinstated.

I read the FWR board every day. It's what keeps me on Mumsnet.

Feminism is the political movement for the liberation of women

Might be referred to as feminism in more recent times, but it was always 'Women's Liberation' when I was growing up. We met at 'women's groups'.

Liberation implied being free from the shackles and constraints of imposed gender roles and constructs. Liberation meant be free to be and express who you truly were, and to be able to partake fully in society if you chose to, and to have the law of the land validate that.

To say one is a feminist but is not critical of ascribed & enforced gender roles does not make sense.

Catching up on the overnight posts this stood out. *
"If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him." -- Cardinal Richelieu*

If the monitors* report any of us to the moderators^enough times, there is a good chance of ending up on the naughty step.

I’m still not going away.

I don't think Lang will be back. MNHQ isn't going to back down.

Yes they’ve backed themselves into a corner and won’t come out. This really is a moment for Justine to see that the current approach doesn’t work for her business and change it. But she seems to be busy digging in at the moment. I hope they have some good NEDs or equivalent who can help them see beyond this.

I'm not going anywhere either. I'll be here for as long as women talking annoys the monitors, or until the searchlight stops on me. And if it's the second, it really won't matter because new people will will turn up and join in.

Yet another lurker.

LangCleg's posts where what began to clear up the mess for me when I first came here and didn't have a clue about any of the issues discussed. I've read loads of her posts and am so shocked this has happened, she's always so calm and clear. It doesn't seem right.

Thank all of you wonderful women who continue to use this forum, despite the fact you could be banned and smeared by men all over the internet for doing something with good intention and for speaking your mind and the truth. You are all so brave, valuable, strong and articulate and have given me so much RL confidence, esp when talking to my pre-teen DD about feminist issues. It's such a shame an important voice has been targeted this way.

I think from a lurkers standpoint, it's great you have a few posters who always seem to disagree. It really highlights your ability, strength and intellect and although it must be tiresome, shows outsiders that all your thoughts are very considered and solid.

That's a good point Langdownthecleghole
Lang must have posted thousands of posts here over the years, considering the opacity of the guidelines, and the fact that she was being monitored, is it any suprise she had posts deleted?

While the two aren't linked, I've been hiding a lot of the royal threads at the minute, the sheer spite and vindictiveness displayed on them is surely not in the spirit of the site and yet they continue. Lang couldn't have been further from that kind of behaviour and yet she gets banned?

Another who has lurked daily on this board for several years.

From spending so much time here, it’s clear that there are two kinds of posters. One, whose posts contain substance, insight and coherence - even if I may not agree with every word. The other, whose purpose seems ever to distract and divide.

LangCleg fell firmly into the first, and is a dreadful loss. As for the second, despite the obvious dedication of its members, once the style is observed, I’m afraid I skip past any subsequent posts and I suspect I’m not alone.

I think Mumsnet are in an invidious position, and despite my disappointment with this week’s developments, I do appreciate this space which has informed me and led to offline conversations and campaigning.

I think it’s always worth remembering that it isn’t those who have fallen foul of moderation who created that position, however. Behind all of the minutiae of moderating decisions and debates as to courtesy, kindness and “in the spirit” is the fact that it is the stated purpose of some to render this discussion almost impossible. For those of us watching what’s playing out here, all it does is strengthen our resolve to keep talking.

Test post - I can’t seem to start a new thread and wondered if I had been banned because of something I said here.

Ok, not banned. Will try to start a new thread on another subject. Sorry!

But no one ever asserted that (a) MN themselves were abusers, surely?

Only that (b) certain (well-meaning) actions here unintentionally* facilitate coercive control by other parties.

While the distinction might not “feel important”... surely it is actually vital - even the crux of this whole imbroglio?

Adding my voice to this thread too. I’m another safeguarding “expert” because I’ve attended countless training sessions. Actually all these gave me is the ability to spot a safeguarding issue and the knowledge of who to refer it to.
A pp mentioned Women’s Liberation as a precursor to Feminism. As a particularly clueless teenager, I welcomed WL mainly because it rejected gender stereotypes (I was v non conforming) and (as I saw it) allowed me to have sex whenever I felt like it (of course in hindsight, this was really a benefit for men). I became disillusioned with some feminist discourse later on as it seemed to come with rules and ideologies that made no sense, for example a female health professional who styled herself a feminist telling me that my distressing and disabling PMDD was in no way related to hormones, because if that was the case it would mean that women could be seen as mentally unstable and physically incapable.

My earlier post was deleted, which was basically saying if we can’t name men as men, safeguarding women and children becomes much more difficult. Language matters.
Perhaps MNHQ are right, this isn’t the right place for Langcleg, in which case is it the right place for any women?

From spending so much time here, it’s clear that there are two kinds of posters. One, whose posts contain substance, insight and coherence - even if I may not agree with every word. The other, whose purpose seems ever to distract and divide

LangCleg fell firmly into the first, and is a dreadful loss. As for the second, despite the obvious dedication of its members, once the style is observed, I’m afraid I skip past any subsequent posts and I suspect I’m not alone

Absolutely!

Girl sorry my comment was to you - and I do appreciate your explanation very much! I just don’t understand MN’s position on all this.

Is there a Bring Back Lang petition I can sign?? There are lots of lurkers who don’t actually post here who might sign.

If lang is lurking, and only if she wants to, I wonder if she might consider putting on spinster or somewhere, her email to the mods which apparently prompted this ban, so we all know what not to say?

MN must decline to discuss (quite rightly, citing Lang’s privacy) but I understand that LC owns the copyright in her own words so can share them.