Lang Cleg 2

[TiredofthisBSbutIstandwithLang]

New thread as we got to 1000.

bd67th, that is Andrea Dworkin, in 'Right-Wing Women.'

I get the self ID concerns, I really do

What are your concerns about self ID?

"If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him." -- Cardinal Richelieu

Imagine how many lines LangCleg has posted here in support of Safeguarding & Women's Rights over the years.

"Meet me in the middle says the unjust man. You take a step forward and he takes a step back. Meet me in the middle says the unjust man."

This Prior person comes across as a desperate attention-seeker and deeply disturbed individual and I can't understand why anyone would give them the time of day.

And I expect that to be the only occasion in my entire life when I comment about them.

What are your concerns about self ID?

I was referring to what I repeatedly see on here about people being able to just self ID their way into toilets etc - I can see why people are saying that would be a worry.
I still think though that despite the genuine concerns, there's a darker side on here that just doesn't sit comfortably.
For me anyway

That's your opinion though Wotcha because I read this forum every day and I don't see what you see. No one can say anything negative about anyone trans without you coming in and telling us we're nasty.

The people we discuss on here are the TRAs. We're not talking about people minding their own business and getting on with their lives and being respectful of others.

That's your opinion though Wotcha because I read this forum every day and I don't see what you see

There you go then. It's hard to describe to those who haven't seen it, but it's there.
Maybe you have to your own WTF moment like I did before it becomes apparent.

I was referring to what I repeatedly see on here about people being able to just self ID their way into toilets etc - I can see why people are saying that would be a worry.

Do you think it's a worry?

I'm not being drawn in further. Grey rock.

"Meet me in the middle says the unjust man. You take a step forward and he takes a step back. Meet me in the middle says the unjust man."

TheBewildernessisWeetabix
That should be the basis for a module in the new RSE curriculum.

I'm not being drawn in further. Grey rock

What, because people are saying things you don't like?!
That's the point being made!
There's no debate on here.
Regular posters make it impossible to be so as it's either grey rock or ooh I like weetabix with banana or I like weetabix too but it's hot milk oh what you talking about, abomination!
It's ridiculous.

It has nothing to do with painting trans people bad. It is about making sure that kids who are not trans are not coerced into thinking they are.
It’s about stopping any Tom, Dick or Harry saying they are trans to infiltrate female spaces.
It’s about giving kids a chance not to be a life long medical patient and cut of parts of their anatomy that they could regret. The anatomy being breasts, penis, testicles, and wombs. And then trying to make a faux penis or vagina that is going to cause unknown harm, physically and mentally.
I really don’t understand how someone would think we are wrong to express these concerns.

Bewilderness and R0wantrees! It's like in Heat when De Niro and Pacino were finally in the same scene.

I think we can mostly agree that the moderators have a difficult task trying to ascertain who has/hasn’t broken what is quickly becoming an increasingly ludicrous (and continually changing) set of guidelines.

Couple of things that need to be discussed.

Firstly, I hope Hebe is being given plenty of support. It was completely heinous to throw her name out like that. Are @MNHQ going to take any action against the posts on Twitter? I would hope as a company that is proactive in the support of its employees that steps have already been taken to address this.

Secondly, I won’t bang the drum about what motivates Lang’s passion to explain coercive control. Far more eloquent posters than I have already done this. Repeatedly.
I will, however, share a couple of screenshots. That illustrates the moderators v monitors argument. Please look at the dates and consider the motivation and how long it’s been occurring.

Finally, regarding twitter posts calling MN users “Weirdos”. I snorted, that term always brings to mind my favourite line from the movie The Craft. “We are the weirdos mister.”
Please consider reinstating Lang.

It has nothing to do with painting trans people bad. It is about making sure that kids who are not trans are not coerced into thinking they are.It’s about stopping any Tom, Dick or Harry saying they are trans to infiltrate female spaces

OK, and I actually agree with those two points.
There's more to it than that for some on here though.
It's not easy to explain but it's there.

iamright17

Fabulous ode to LangCleg

Willis * There's no debate on here.*

Then start a thread....

What did Lang post that was “rude and aggressive?”

Anyone?

Her posts were consistently temperate and polite.

Asserting a different viewpoint does not equate to “rudeness and aggression.”

That said - to those who believe TWAW, the contrary belief (however politely expressed) is considered rude at best.

And MN’s moderators lean TWAW, the user base the other way - therein lies the tension.

It is patronising to suggest moderators are unwitting targets of coercive control. They may genuinely believe that TWAW (as is their right).

There are many of us who do know trans people in RL.
It's like witnessing a car crash in slow motion. You have a strong sense of what is going to happen next.

We are allowed to have a valid opinion.

Sorry I’ve missed what happened to Hebe but would like to offer my support

It's been repeatedly asserted that we were both abusers and proxies for abuse at various times - and the distinction doesn't feel very important when you're on the receiving end of it.

It is important though, @MichaelMumsnet, and making that distinction is part of your job.

Then start a thread....

Random. About what? Trans issues? It only ever goes one way and if it doesn't weetabix preferences etc gets wheeled out to drown out.
People are on this thread responding to questions, are we not supposed to answer?

Her posts were consistently temperate and polite

Bollocks.
Sorry

2B
Way back on the thread Michael from Mumsnet explained the problem. It was all to do with Lang's speech and attitude towards the Mumsnet moderators. Not public posts. Michael wouldn't elaborate on the content. It's all explained by him way back on this thread.