Lang Cleg 2

[TiredofthisBSbutIstandwithLang]

New thread as we got to 1000.

Willis with your best interest in mind, I think you need to step back a little.

Not every post re troll hunting, or goady, bad faith posters, is about you.

I think you're possibly taking all of this way too personally.

@TheBewildernessisWeetabix
‘Attempting to strike a bargain, the woman says: I come to you on your own terms. Her hope is that his murderous attention will focus on a female who conforms less artfully, less willingly. In effect, she ransoms the remains of a life—what is left over after she has renounced willful individuality—by promising indifference to the fate of other women. This sexual, sociological, and spiritual adaptation, which is, in fact, the maiming of all moral capacity, is the primary imperative of survival for women who live under male- supremacist rule.’ P19

All Feminists are gender critical
How does that work then, as some people can be feminists who believe women should be free to be their own person and know their own mind, having a different opinion doesn't mean you're a man or brainwashed, and they can also support trans women too.
Two viewpoints I know people on here will take issue with but hey.
So no, not "all feminists" are gender critical.

Not true, it happens to people who express a different opinion too.
You are right in that shutupshutupshut up is usually going to be viewed as goad rather than sharing a "different opinion".

Feminism has at its core a critique of gender as applied to women and girls. HTH.

with your best interest in mind, I think you need to step back a little
Why? I'm entitled to my opinion too.

Not every post re troll hunting, or goady, bad faith posters, is about you
Never said it was all about me, I'm just saying it does happen. Frequently.

You are right in that shutupshutupshut up is usually going to be viewed as goad rather than sharing a "different opinion"

Well yes, that would be viewed as goad rather than a different opinion.

All Feminists are gender critical. However not all gender critical women are Feminists.
It is important to remember that right wing women love their children too.

TheBewildernessisWeetabix There's some really interesting writing by Andrea Dworkin relevent to this that I was trying to find over Christmas. Thanks for the reminder- I need to get to the library.

Feminism is the political movement for the liberation of women.

People seem to forget this when they insist women are responsible for choosing the style of oppression that suits them best.

Maybe it would be easier for some to understand if rather than saying all feminists are gender critical, it's put as "all feminists are critical of gender" ie gender roles. How they are critical of this varies.

I’ve more less copied my post from another thread, but feel the need to repeat it here. Now that Lang has been banned, the watchers will turn their eye to another poster.

The lying is really stomach turning, as I was abused throughout my childhood and teens. Part of that abuse involved being forced to tell my abusers that I ‘liked’ the horrendous abuse they were inflicting on me. I was threatened with punishments that I won’t go into, if I told the truth of what was happening, so had to lie to my teacher when questioned about my wellbeing as a small child. All the abuse inflicted on me, including by the man I became engaged to in my 20s was kept hidden and all of it was committed by male bodied people.

Now I’m on a predominately female site, which is being moderated by mainly females and I’m being told I must again lie, in order to protect the feelings of male bodied people. The abuse from male bodied people towards women, never stops. It just changes techniques. The only difference is, some women are helping those male bodied people to force me to lie.

I’ll play the perverse game, because that’s what it is, and not commit the TRA crime of misgendering. It helps because I know the majority of FWR women recognise the truth and they can’t stop us from saying their true sex out loud or having that knowledge in our head. The longer you’re on, the easier it gets, because the truth always outs and the end stage is too important.

It seems very likely that GC feminism will be recognised as a protected characteristic within the next 12 months or so (we know that even anti-Forstater human rights lawyers like Adam Wagner have conceded that an appeal is likely to succeed).

Once that happens how will Mumsnet be able to defend itself against the charge that it is subjecting GC feminists to less favourable treatment on the grounds of their philosophical beliefs?

The feminist board has been singled out for extra monitoring and additional rules. Rules which, if broken result in expulsion. Rules which are clearly less favourable treatment and which I consider have been devised to control the expression of gender critical feminism.

I’m really very sad to see this as Mumsnet was a source of much succour to me through difficult pregnancies and horrible births.

I'm another who rarely posts, but has learnt so much from the contribution of LangCleg.

I struggle to articulate what my point is, and then it's like a light bulb going on when I read the clearly written passionate posts.

Its given me confidence to have these conversations in real life.

We need more not less people like LangCleg posting.

Nor was Hebe in discussions with a Twitter user about said banning (despite the claims no one believed that at all, there are dozens of posts demanding to know more details about this invented and wildly implausible discussion).

Shortly after I first joined, MNHQ started taking TG violation reports from non-members over Twitter. Giving non-members such privileges undermines the trust that members have in the mod team. It's not a big leap from that to non-members emailing TG reports to moderators. I'm glad that Hebe was doing no such thing and I'm disgusted that Joss Prior has stooped to such a despicable tactic to sow seeds of discord and distrust between the site members and the mod team. People who are sure that they are on the "right side of history" don't resort to such underhand means.

I will say this: it would have been a lot lot easier for me to dismiss JP's accusation of Hebe outright if MNHQ hadn't started taking TG reports via Twitter from non-members in the first place. This wasn't Hebe's fault though and I am sorry for doubting her.

I do wonder what point they imagine they’re making by posting screenshots from here on Twitter (I was screenshotted twice!). It’s not the same as vice versa, because no one is blocked from viewing posts on MN, anyone can just mosey on over and read the threads for themselves, even if they’re banned from posting.

It's a technique called "quote mining". You take a quote and remove the context it was said in to make it look worse than it was. This is a popular technique amongst male privileges activists, who use it to claim that feminists said things they didn't actually say. By screencapping posts, the transactivists can make a quote look worse than it is. It's intellectual dishonesty and, to repeat myself, people who are sure that they are on the "right side of history" don't resort to such underhand means.

Just trying out my new username, in honour of Lang Cleg.....

It helps because I know the majority of FWR women recognise the truth

T0tallyFuckedUpFamily It does & they do recognise the many important truths in your post.

Thank you R0wantrees, that means a lot.

Feminism is the movement to gain equality for women and freedom from the patriarchal structures which underpin a society designed for the benefit of men. Gender is one of those structures, demanding as it does the conformity of sexes to the confines of narrow gendered stereotypes, a conformity which harms both sexes to some extent but particularly women.

If you’re not gender-critical, you’re not a feminist.

If your brand of feminism centres men rather than women, you’re not a feminist.

HTH.

Now that Lang has been banned, the watchers will turn their eye to another poster

See, that I don't get. If you're not repeatedly breaking talk guidelines or whatever, how can any so called "watcher" report anything "report worthy?"
There'd be nothing to report.

I have just gone onto the home page and I got this message

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We're sorry, too many people are accessing this website at the same time. We're working on this problem. Please try again later.

LangCleg is causing a meltdown??

It seems very likely that GC feminism will be recognised as a protected characteristic within the next 12 months or so

Sex is already a protected characteristic and we've seen plenty of lies about the equality laws. Maybe we should think ahead to how that could be misrepresented in the same way?

LangCleg is causing a meltdown??

Indeed. When they shut another one of us down, another hundred will stand in that woman’s place. Many women were punished, jailed, tortured and even died, in order to gain the female vote. Chucking us off a website won’t shut us up, we’ll simply double down and find a new place to tell the truth.

@LangLiveThePenis

‘Attempting to strike a bargain, the woman says: I come to you on your own terms. Her hope is that his murderous attention will focus on a female who conforms less artfully, less willingly. In effect, she ransoms the remains of a life—what is left over after she has renounced willful individuality—by promising indifference to the fate of other women. This sexual, sociological, and spiritual adaptation, which is, in fact, the maiming of all moral capacity, is the primary imperative of survival for women who live under male- supremacist rule.’ P19

What are you quoting? That is a fabulous explanation of what I have taken to calling "do it to Julia" (as in, 1984 room 101).

See, that I don't get. If you're not repeatedly breaking talk guidelines or whatever, how can any so called "watcher" report anything "report worthy?" There'd be nothing to report.

I call it the Richelieu Technique. Report everything even remotely contentious in the hope that something sticks. Report at night and weekends, when "less-experienced mods" (aka sympathetic woke interns like the one that leaked IP addresses) are on duty.

"If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him." -- Cardinal Richelieu

Should auld posters be forgot
And never called to mind
Should all posters be forgot
And Our LangCleg

For Our LangCleg, my dear
For Our LangCleg
Who safeguards kids, yours and mine
That’s Our LangCleg

And surely we will miss her so
And surely her strong voice
So raise a cup of tea or gin
For Our LangCleg

For Our LangCleg, my dear
For Our LangCleg
Her voice she give to me to use
Our dear Auld LangCleg

...