Trans women in womens toilet

[BeCoolYolanda]

I was out with friends tonight for a friends birthday. While in the queue for the toilet in the womens bathroom a transwomen came in. She was chatting to people in the queue and the lady in front of me asked if she were a man or a woman as she wasnt comfortable with a male being in the female toilets.

With that all hell all hell broke loose, the transwomen became very aggressive shouting and pointing in the womens face. A lot of women in the queue also turned on the woman, saying how dare she ask that etc. The woman ended up locking herself in the toilet as she felt intimidated.

Eventually the bouncers were called and they came in to the toilet and dragged the woman who asked the question out forcefully by the arm. Should this be happening? All a women did was question if it was a male or female that was using a female space, maybe she could have worded it less bluntly but surely the sentiment is still the same.

I am sorry. I meant the person was a trans woman. The 'it' was an honest mistake.

when a lot of posters also talk about all trans people in derogative ways, such as referring to them as “it”, I can’t help but feel a lot of this is pure hatred rather than genuine concern for safety.

I must have missed all those posts that refer to trans people as it. Could you point them out please? I’m very shocked as I’ve never seen that terminology used by any of the regular posters. I have, however seen some comments on other feminist threads plopped on by new posters, which are then very quickly screenshot in order to prove how nasty the GC Feminists are. Is it possible that’s the case. I understand that it can be difficult to tell the difference between genuine posters and those seeking to create division.

However in this case there was no risk. Lots of people, very safe ... I can see that people can be uncomfortable but that's where it should end

Why? Why should it end because only one woman spoke out? How many women have to feel uncomfortable before their opinion is given the same weight as a male bodied person who doesn’t feel comfortable identifying as their born sex? If it’s simply about lots of people, very safe, then surly the male toilets would have been just as safe?

when a lot of posters also talk about all trans people in derogative ways, such as referring to them as “it”, I can’t help but feel a lot of this is pure hatred rather than genuine concern for safety

I'm not gender critical. There are aspects of the discussion on here I don't like but I've never seen "it" used.

“Are women allowed any space at - all in your mind - which has not been colonised by your version of reality?“

What on earth are you talking about? Have you even read my posts or are you just putting words into my mouth to suit your agenda and argument?

I agree that male bodies should not be in female spaces, I also believe on the same token female bodies should not be in male spaces, I disagree however, that this concern means it’s acceptable to disparage and mock an entire group of people purely because a small group of them are radicalised. Referring to people as “it”, constantly misgendering them and mocking their mental health problems is transphobic and not necessary to discuss issues with self ID and safety, something which is extremely common on this website, and something you keep trying to dispute or justify. If you genuinely as you claim, have never seen such posts on here I suggest you look more carefully as this forum is littered with them.

WHERE! Where are the posts that refer to trans people as IT! I have even reread this thread and still can’t find them!

it would make men extremely uncomfortable.

So the women who are extremely uncomfortable should consider the discomfort of the men and get over it. Of course.

If you genuinely as you claim, have never seen such posts on here I suggest you look more carefully as this forum is littered with them.

If the forum is littered with them, then I should be able to find them. I can’t! Can you please show me?

“So what you’re saying is it’s okay to post hateful comments about trans people

You keep saying this...but where is the evidence? Give some examples of supposed hatred from this thread, for example.“

Head over to the feminism forum and look for yourself, it’s not that hard, easier still, google “mumsnet transphobia” and you will find a plethora of examples and articles discussing the rampant transphobia on here.

So "Kubla Khan" by Samuel Taylor Coleridge should be rewritten from:

"It was an Abyssinian maid"

to

"She was an Abyssinian maid?"

Head over to thread on the trans woman sent to a women’s prison, it’s full of posts mocking her appearance with comments such as:

“You know I can often be snippy about transwomen going overboard with make up and heels and mini-skirts after transition ‘that’s not how women dress FFS!’ is my usual reaction.

And then I see a picture of someone like Tamara and I think...hmm, well there are upsides to the over the top styles some wear. At least they’re making an effort!“

“HE, is where HE belongs. end of“

“”She” needs a shave!”

“ How can anyone earn their living writing that nonsense?

The word is "he" because "she" is quite clearly a man.

I grew up thinking the job of journalists in a free society was to make sure the truth was heard.”

That was from one thread on the first page, so please tell me there’s no transphobia on here and it’s all “sensible discussion of topics” 🙄

easier still, google “mumsnet transphobia” and you will find a plethora of examples and articles discussing the rampant transphobia on here

Hmmm. Just did as you advised. You know, 'cos we're always being told to 'educate ourselves'. So off I went to explore and educate myself.

Despite the instructed google search, I still can't see the examples you're talking about.

It returned lots of articles either highlighting the debate as to whether Mumsnet is transphobic or not, articles reporting on complaints about Mumsnet being transphobic, or opinion pieces that Mumsnet is or isn't transphobic. But not actual examples of the actual rampant (love that hyperbolic term!) transphobia.

Although, hey, here's an article with actual examples
www.gaystarnews.com/article/nspcc-mumsnet-child-abuse-transphobia/

Which, to be honest, I'd be reluctant to draw attention to again if I was a trans-rights activist, given that it highlights some serious concerns Mumsnet users had back in 2018 trying to engage with an NSPCC webchat and flagging consent/naming body parts/boundaries etc. Concerns that the NSPCC didn't want to address. After delaying the chat, the charity pulled out of the event, before releasing this statement to Mumsnet: ‘The NSPCC doesn’t consider there to be specific child protection concerns in relation to trans-inclusive policies.

Ahhh, sorry, I didn't realise your definition of transphobia means ' you must never speak the truth'.

I also think you may never have visited other parts of Mumsnet, if you think that's specifically transphobia, not just a wide range of people having opinions, not always kind.

FFS, your examples of transphobia =“HE, is where HE belongs. end of“

"I grew up thinking the job of journalists in a free society was to make sure the truth was heard.”
You want to include those in your examples of transphobia?

Ariesscientist90 Is that the best you can come up with? The male bodied person that broke into no less than five homes of elderly and/or vulnerable people. Someone who has had absolutely no treatment to help them ‘transition’ to the ‘gender’ they identify with? They deserve more sympathy and respect than females who have genuine reason to have no wish to share spaces with that person? Really? Do you really think that person should share a prison cell with females and they should just shut up about it?

I think the obvious solution here is unisex facilities

No thank you.

Surely people can’t expect them to get changed in male facilities? Not only is that incredibly dangerous for them, but it would make men extremely uncomfortable.

Oh noes. Not discomfort for men.

If you couldn’t even tell a woman was born a biological male, what would be the issue in them using women’s facilities?

We can almost always tell.

It’s nothing to do with sympathy or respect, it’s to do with transphobia, if you can’t see how mocking a trans woman’s appearance and constantly misgendering them is transphobic there’s no point in this debate, is racism also justified if the comments are “true” or the person in question is a criminal? You asked for examples of misgendering and disparaging comments on here because apparently you’re all oblivious to them, I provided them and you justify it by saying “oh but it’s true”, “she isn’t trans enough and is a criminal so deserves it”. I could find a million examples and you’d always find some excuse for them, so at this point I’m not going to continue the discussion as it’s going nowhere, you’re clearly defensive about any criticism of this site if it’s content and just looking for a fight rather than genuine debate.

Arie I'd ask you for help in describing your argument further, but it looks like you've decided to opt out after flinging transphobia accusations around. (Handy for new articles 'Mumsnet is full of rampant transphobia, some people say'! Pink News alert: A poster 'Arie' described the rampant transphobia apparent across Mumsnet.)

Also, a strange interjection of 'racism' thrown in there. A lot of people have pointed out that trans activists deploy 'racism' analogies inappropriately to equate male-bodied people identifying as females with racism. And there you are.

I could find a million examples but you haven't and most of the examples are just people going 'eh, that's a male?' Truth doesn't = transphobia. I do empathise with you that the truth that many people see and describe isn't going along with what you really, really want people to say instead.

so at this point I’m not going to continue the discussion as it’s going nowhere ie I cannot provide evidence or a rational argument, therefore I'm out! I think we need a flowchart for typical TRA visitation of FWR - it's textbook!

Conscious that this is derailing original intent of thread so, like Arie, I'm out. But not for the same reasons!

Ahhh, sorry, I didn't realise your definition of transphobia means ' you must never speak the truth'

Yes, that's it........'transphobia' and 'hatred' means discussion, analysis and comment; which may sometimes include observations that males dressed as females actually still look like, and are, male.

What we are now witnessing in society, especially with a younger generation ( & on university campuses), is an inability to tolerate disagreement, and an accompanying inability or unwillingness to debate. Disagreement therefore transmutes into 'bigotry' and 'hatred'.......and discussion is shunned.

Thing is if you cannot take on and challenge different arguments or view-points you have no chance of discrediting them. The arguments and the debate are all one way on this particular issue - and the failure to rise to the challenge is presented as a virtue.

Long term the whole thing will inevitably unravel because it has not been founded on anything other than 'feelings' and an unwillingness to deal with reality.

WHERE! Where are the posts that refer to trans people as IT! I have even reread this thread and still can’t find them

The expectation is that if you repeat something enough times it becomes true; like a magic talisman; meaning you don't have to think, discuss, or do anything further.

Most people who are uncomfortable with being compelled to use 'correct' pronouns tend to use 'they' as far as I'm aware. I certainly do.

Ariesscientist90 Is that the best you can come up with? The male bodied person that broke into no less than five homes of elderly and/or vulnerable people

I posted that link. It was in my local newspaper. In that particular case the trans woman was sent to a male prison.

Female people - you're allowed to be uncomfortable, maybe, for now, but that's where it should end! Only an evil witch would express her discomfort - that's unladylike, that is.

Male people - OMG are you uncomfortable? That's terrible. And probably illegal. What can we do to fix that for you immediately? A radical reorganization of society that leads to women no longer having a right to either single sex spaces or free speech? Certainly, we'll get right on that, and yes we know that we're horrible for not having done it sooner.

Head over to the feminism forum

This is the feminist forum, love. Says so right at the top of the page.

I think Bob is short-sighted in more than one way 😂