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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Julie Bindel bullying Posie

409 replies

LiterallyProblematic · 17/01/2020 08:16

FFS! Why did a she have to do this? It’s so divisive and gratuitously mean!
twitter.com/bindelj/status/1217986645871546368?s=20

OP posts:
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BeyondFlubeInclusionaryRF · 18/01/2020 11:02

Chinny reckon.

SapphosRock · 18/01/2020 11:18

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Needmoresleep · 18/01/2020 11:30

Harry the Owl was accused of hate speech.

Who defines hate speech? Who should define hate speech?

Looking forward to the upcoming court case. Hopefully we will have a clear answer. Which may send a message to those posters who have popped up here to criticise some pretty amazing women.

It would be interesting to know whether these posters achieve the same levels of perfection themselves. And whether they apply the same standards when appraising men.

If not, there is a name for it. Misogyny.

BovaryX · 18/01/2020 11:42

Harry the Owl was accused of hate speech. Who defines hate speech? Who should define hate speech?

An excellent question. There is an existential threat to freedom of speech being wielded by totalitarian zealots who think #no debate is a convenient way to silence dissent. These people do not believe in the Enlightenment values which used to define Western democracies. They use control words to shut people down. They are authoritarians and they are hampering public discourse and debate

SapphosRock · 18/01/2020 12:02

How on earth can stating certain groups of people should not be allowed to have children be considered 'debate?' It's not freedom of speech it's simple hate speech.

The first two statements would never be tolerated on here so I don't know why the third one would. Posie stated the third one and presumably still stands by it.

'Gay people shouldn't be able to have children'

'Disabled people shouldn't be able to have children'

'Trans people shouldn't be able to have children'

BovaryX · 18/01/2020 12:08

Sapphos
Can you provide a citation for those quotes? A link so that we can all see the context. Can you also provide evidence for your statement that PP is doing real harm to women? When you make accusations, the onus is on you to substantiate them

SapphosRock · 18/01/2020 12:16

Bovary I'm not sharing the screen shots because what she said is vile and doesn't need further publicity. Look on Twitter - plenty of 'citations' of her claiming that trans men should be sterilised. And if you're of the opinion that trans men are female then that is pretty harmful to women.

snowblight · 18/01/2020 12:22

When you make accusations, the onus is on you to substantiate them

Strange that seeing as any story that is anti-trans is immediately accepted as gospel on this forum. Hmm More double standards.

BovaryX · 18/01/2020 12:24

Nope. I am not hunting on Twitter, I don't do Twitter. You have made accusations which you have failed to substantiate. You have provided zero evidence to support your claim that PP is doing real harm to women. When you make an accusation which you can't support with evidence? I draw my own conclusions

BovaryX · 18/01/2020 12:27

snowblight

Your contribution to this thread has been most illuminating. Your tactic here is known as bait and switch Sorry. No sale.

snowblight · 18/01/2020 12:31

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BovaryX · 18/01/2020 12:38

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AvocadoToes · 18/01/2020 12:39

you'd have a whole thread on it and there wouldn't be sight nor sound of 'is there any evidence for this?

No evidence or examples?
Looks like another unsubstantiated slur from snowblight.

Datun · 18/01/2020 12:49

I just watched the video of Posie in the original tweet.

Anyone watching that will be in absolutely zero doubt of this woman's ferocious passion and rage over what's being done to children.

Feminist clashes aside, the agenda from others to try and shut Posie down is always enlightening.

Butterisbest · 18/01/2020 13:20

You're right Datun, it's very enlightening this hatred and loathing of an outspoken woman. All the attempts to smear her and get others to agree that she's a disgrace.
Many on this thread have said that they don't agree with all that she says and does but still the slurs and blanket statements of the utter awfulness of PP keep coming.
Julie Bindel has said on this thread that she was wrong to use the words that she did. Good for her.

DuMondeB · 18/01/2020 14:17

You know that, and everyone on this forum knows it.

What the ever-loving-fuck is ‘that’? I have absolutely no clue what you are on about, so no ‘everyone on this forum’ doesn’t know ‘it’.

Needmoresleep · 18/01/2020 14:52

Misogyny.

If you hate women why on earth visit a site for women.

Stellwagen · 18/01/2020 15:18

No American, snowbright, would look at that video of Sarah McBride and think she was being abused. What she was experiencing was how our politics works — in fact how our culture overall works. We’re not a people who stand on decorum and certainly we don’t much engage in politesse.

And lobbyists are public personae.

Yep. And most Americans are not very fond of lobbyists.
I'm grateful to posie and venice for bringing to my attention that Sarah McBride was in Washington to meet with Joseph P Kennedy III. He wants to be my senator. He can fuck off.

Retrofitted · 18/01/2020 15:20

What’s weird here is that Posie has apologised for saying that trans people should not have children, and stated that she said was angry and heated at the time.

So, yunno, she definitely said it, more than once, on more than one platform, was criticised by a broad range of people, apologised, and has not said it (publicly at least) since that time.

The denials, minimising, excusing and referring to it as an unsubstantiated slur is truly ludicrous, and hypocritical.

By all means, have her as your hero, but if you want to be in any way listened to when accusing others of gaslighting, start with not trying to vanish away the dodgy shit your hero has done along the way, and telling others they are making it up out of hatred and loathing.

Datun · 18/01/2020 15:35

Far as I'm aware that is something of a misrepresentation.

Posie was responding to a transman or transmen having a meltdown because being pregnant meant that it clashed ideologically with them being a man and it was triggering.

Posie is not only opposed to transgender ideology, she sees it as 100%, actively harmful. She was goaded beyond endurance that someone was ranting to her about how triggering something is that she is 100% opposed to in the first place.

It was said in exasperation as she was almost being blamed for the effects of something that she disagrees with anyway.

I'm pretty certain that Posey does not think all trans people should be sterilised.

Retrofitted · 18/01/2020 15:53

Datun, I w where, in the threads, and asked her myself, do you actually think trans people should not be parents. She replied to me, and other posters also, to say that yes, she felt they should not be parents, whether to children conceived before during or after transition.

It was very specific, and I recall it very clearly, as do others.

Denying it happened or claiming she is being misrepresented/misunderstood/taken out of context, or was provoked, I mean does this not seem familiar to you? This denial it happened (here on mn, not in the original twitter thing, but over the next couple, of days when threads were discussing it), or blaming it on someone else for the words that came out of her mouth?

She stuck to her guns about it when challenged here on mn by people who were not goading her, and she’d had plenty of time to cool down, and had already been criticised for it on Twitter.

Looks a lot like gaslighting, to keep on finding ways it wasn’t her fault because the bad people made her say it, or she didn’t say it at all, or she did do it but she didn’t mean it, and anyone who says otherwise is a goody fucker sluring her without evidence.

BeyondFlubeInclusionaryRF · 18/01/2020 16:02

I can - in theory - understand and empathise with a viewpoint that somebody (trans or not, I'm not talking specifically about transpeople here) who behaves in the selfish and abusive way people have on the transwidows thread, or somebody who will indoctrinate their child to a religion I strongly disagree with, and will gaslight them from birth, could be a child protection issue and they perhaps shouldn't be parents.

Which is posie's main concern, isn't it. The children.

SapphosRock · 18/01/2020 16:05

'Goaded beyond endurance' is the typical defense for men who commit domestic violence. Being goaded doesn't excuse anything.

IdaBWells · 18/01/2020 16:24

Most women are extremely scared to go public with their legitimate concerns regarding the medical treatment of children considered “trans”. As we all know, women who put their head above the parapet can expect a nonstop barrage of horrendous and terrifying abuse, such as being threatened with rape and murder. In the case of Caroline, the Catholic journalist, her children’s personal details were shared online and a man who has been found guilty of threatening others with a golf club turned up on her doorstep trying to serve papers. I can only imagine what Posie is threatened with and has experienced (as well as the police questioning her).

So she has said something which she quickly regretted and apologized for. Yet now she must never be allowed to be forgiven as a less than a perfect individual, despite all her years of dedication in attempting to protect women and children?

The Purity Politics does no one any favors except those on the opposite side (usually men) who will use this as another excuse for more hysterical, threatening and frightening bullying.

SapphosRock · 18/01/2020 16:38

Yeah let's ignore all this purity politics and guilt by association nonsense Confused

Prince Andrew? I'm sure he was visiting Epstein for the sunshine.

Trump bragging about grabbing women by the pussy? He apologized so let's forget all about it.

The problem with Posie Parker is she has one conservative opinion that many feminists agree with alongside a whole host of far right, bigoted, racist opinions.

Of course we should hold people accountable for what they have said, what they have done and who they have associated with.

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