Nikkietutorials comes out as trans

[Cocolapew]

I only know who they are due to DD watching their make up videos. They were on BBC 3s Glow Up program as a guest judge.
Apparently they were being blackmailed and so came out in a video, which is a bit shit for them.

She's transitioned in every way possible the people here seem to want trans women to transition

I don't want anyone to transition. It's not possible to change sex so it's selling dysphoric people a lie, and it comes with the risk of horrific complications and a life as a permanent patient. Why would I wish that on anyone? I want people to be happy in and with their own existing body, with robust and sensitive support for dysphoria. We don't encourage people with anorexia to get their stomach stapled so why are people with gender dysphoria 'treated' by removing healthy body parts? You seem to fundamentally misunderstand the GC feminist position here.

I'm sorry that Nikkie was let down so badly in childhood by their mother; I'm sorry that they were denied the opportunity to develop naturally to sexual maturity, and I'm sorry that they now found themselves in the awful position of being under threat of blackmail. I also hope their fiance is coping well with learning that Nikkie is not who they thought they were, and I hope this doesn't encourage any more young people to believe they were 'born in the wrong body'.

Discussion of rights in a way which respects all would be my object - I have worked to advance the position of all 9 Equality Act protected characteristics (and some arguably not yet covered). Where there are conflicts (or perceived conflicts) then advances require goodwill, thoughtfulness and understanding.

Or, of course, some can continue to throw rocks. A personal choice.

You may want to reconsider how effectively you're doing that then Robin because implying that one group is responsible for harm happening to another group is not thoughtful nor is it likely to foster goodwill.

Loved Nikki on Glow Up however I'm very much in the no shit Sherlock camp too! Awful to be blackmailed but also awful not to disclose it to your partner.

I recall the lovely Glow Up winner Ellis speaking out ages ago about how he had at first felt pressure to become 'trans' but then he realised he wasn't, he was just a guy who was into cosmetics, liked wearing make up and wanted to become a fab MUA.

Not so sure about his more recent ish twitter posts where he possibly used clumsy wording when he said something about 'being a woman' because of his made up look so perhaps his position has changed?!

I haven't seen anyone suggesting Nikkie is 'dangerous or threatening' on this thread, Robin, can you quote? People have expressed a great deal of sympathy, in fact. However, no matter how TRAs try to coerce us, sympathy doesn't mean abandoning feminist protection of women's rights, and the rights of women to define ourselves, or accepting that anyone who likes Barbie and makeup is really a woman.

I think this will just heap more confusion onto young children and it helps no one. It is not possible to be born in the wrong body & we need to be honest with kids, it’s not possible to change sex.

We don't encourage people with anorexia to get their stomach stapled so why are people with gender dysphoria 'treated' by removing healthy body parts? You seem to fundamentally misunderstand the GC feminist position here.

I suppose I am, but the sheer aggression I've been met with for saying I'm non-binary or disagreeing with the stances here in a calm and collected manner has put me off engaging fully, to be honest. I don't fully know if Nikki's mother pushed her into being trans, even from what she says in the video - that doesn't mean I'm going to disrespect her gender pronouns because I don't think she's right about her own gender.

Many people on here have said in the past (and I don't have screenshots/links off the top of my head, I'm not bored enough to go through saving them lol) that if trans women truly wanted to be women they'd get the surgery/transition "fully" to being a female. We're not entitled to know about Nikki's genitalia and I don't particularly want to discuss it, but I have seen GC people in the past saying that removal of the penis validates them more as "true" trans people.

I'm not of the opinion that being transgender is a mental illness, though, as a non-binary trans person myself. I was given a gender at birth that I don't feel fits me in any shape or form for multiple reasons and certain surgeries will help me feel more comfortable with my body. It's not for anybody here to say I'm a confused gay man/confused lesbian woman/confused straight person when they haven't lived my experience and are making judgements based on an experience they haven't had.

wow, sorry for the off topic rant at the end there! I didn't realise how much I'd written.

rocketmen people may say that full surgery shows a more serious commitment or belief in being the opposite sex, but that doesn't mean it's encouraged. It's impossible to change sex. I'd rather people could feel comfortable in their own bodies rather than surgically altering them to fit repressive, sexist stereotypes. You weren't assigned a gender at birth, your sex was noted. I too from my earliest memories have always felt uncomfortable with gender stereotypes that have been pushed on me according to my birth sex, but I don't see the solution as being to medicate and alter my body, as my body is not the problem, the sexist stereotypes foisted on us by society are. I fully understand why it's tempting to want to alter your body to bring relief from being constantly pushed into gender roles one is uncomfortable with, but it's not the solution and in any case people will always be able to tell your birth sex.

How can someone be a non binary trans person? Transition means moving from one towards the other.....non binary means neither male or female. Doesn’t make any sense?

But @rocketmen you have your own personal standards of what constitutes 'respect' and others may disagree and say that's actually deference you're promoting.

It's very similar to Royalists vs Republicans. What Royalists see as 'respectful' can grate on those who believe respect must flow both ways. If it only flows from the less powerful to the more powerful then it becomes bowing and scraping and expecting nothing in return. Which is what female people have had to do to male people in order to try and stay safe since, well, always. Whether or not those males were heavily made up or not. All you're really doing is reinforcing the existing power structure.

in any case people will always be able to tell your birth sex.

People constantly mistake me for both genders, so I don't think this is true. The only way they'd know is by seeing my genetalia. I'm very androgynous looking.

How can someone be a non binary trans person? Transition means moving from one towards the other.....non binary means neither male or female. Doesn’t make any sense?

Non-binary can be under the transgender umbrella as it's a difference in your birth-assigned gender/sex/whichever way you prefer I put it. I think some intersex people don't consider themselves as transgender for obvious reasons, but non-binary people are a different gender (or lack thereof) that they were assigned at birth, hence the term transgender which I use for myself. I intend to make some changes to my body in the future.

But @rocketmen you have your own personal standards of what constitutes 'respect' and others may disagree and say that's actually deference you're promoting.

Everybody has their own standards of respect, but I think it's basic respect to not refer to somebody as the pronouns they're uncomfortable with. If I did that to you I'd likely be banned from the board, understandably, so why is it okay to do it to Nikki? It feels malicious for people who wouldn't have used they/them for her to suddenly switch because she wasn't born with the chromosomes they thought she was.

I'd rather people could feel comfortable in their own bodies rather than surgically altering them to fit repressive, sexist stereotype

Delurking to say I totally agree with that.

What I don't understand though, is that if trans people make up something like 3% of the population, why are GC feminists comparatively more up in arms about that 3%, then the much higher percentage of natal women who have cosmetic surgery, to also fit a sexist stereotype.

I appreciate people can care about more than one thing at once, but surely it would be logical for the number of threads to be proportionate to the scale of the issue? Meaning there should be lots more discussing cosmetic surgery.

Not trying to be goady, I really just don't understand the disparity.

See that's the problem - you see 'basic respect' as being about allowing another person's word to override my own sensory perceptions and rationality - I see respect as being about allowing autonomous individuals to have the final say over their personal perception of reality. Women have been denied that long enough. It ends here.

why are GC feminists comparatively more up in arms about that 3%

Possibly because this 3% are eroding female safe spaces when women with cosmetic surgery are not.

SirChing I'm not a fan of plastic surgery in general either, but women who've had plastic surgery are not members of the oppressor group trying to redefine the oppressed group according to sexist stereotypes, and trampling over women's sex-based protections in the process.
Rochetmen you didn't respond to my other points, surely you agree it's better that society changes, rather than people have to change their bodies just to get a bit of peace from the expectations and pressures placed on us according to our birth sex? Surely that's going about things the wrong way round?

Personally I'm more "up in arms" against the transgender political movement which is homophobic, sexist and blatantly dangerous to women than I am "up in arms" against individual transpeople.

We all lose out by no longer having definitions of sex and sex-based rights.

@UpfieldHatesWomen I can only respond to so many things in one post without overwhelming myself tbh. There were a lot of posts directed at me, so sorry if I didn't respond to some of the points you wanted me to address. I might not have answers for them without doing more research.

How do you propose society changes? I don't think societal changes will affect the rate of transgender individuals a huge deal tbh. There's transgender people in every culture, including those without contact to the western world. What about transgender men, by the way? I don't see them mentioned much and I don't know how they fall into the GC views.

I see respect as being about allowing autonomous individuals to have the final say over their personal perception of reality. Women have been denied that long enough. It ends here.

So if you perceive somebody as female and learn that they weren't born a female a year into a friendship you'll start calling her 'he' or 'they'? This is what I don't really understand. It seems like even when they aren't harming anybody or 'invading spaces' as you say they're instantly less human in your eyes and don't deserve to be referred to by the pronouns they ask you to.

If I ask you to call me Frank instead of Jeff, I'd hope you'd be okay with doing that rather than forcing a name on me I didn't want to be called just because it's your perspective of the world.

I've never felt that Nikkie thought "womanhood" depended on looking like an Instagram model, and have always seen her as someone who was radically blunt about what real women look like in everyday and just how far removed from reality that high glam look was

But that doesn't add up to actually being a woman, does it?

Really why oh why can't we develop an expanded range of ways of being for men - what the jeff is wrong with "feminine men"?

What is wrong with being a man who plays with Barbie dolls, for example, as opposed to playing with train sets?

Bring on gender non-conformity. But the utter conservatism of jumping from gender non-conformity to transgender is just depressing.

It feels malicious for people who wouldn't have used they/them for her to suddenly switch because she wasn't born with the chromosomes they thought she was.

I haven't 'suddenly switched' anything, since this is the first time I have ever had reason to refer to Nikkie. I have been consistent in using they/them pronouns for Nikkie. I respect that Nikkie does not like 'he/him' pronouns; however Nikkie in turn would have to respect that I prefer not to use 'she/her' pronouns about people born male.

why are GC feminists comparatively more up in arms about that 3%

Because that 3% are seeking to redefine 100% of women and girls in order to make any legal recognition of our biological sex forbidden.
We will have no right to be recognised as the sex class we actually are. Our rights as females - the foundation of which is an explicit distinction between us and all males - will only be available to those of us who declare that they identify into the same class as male people.

There is currently almost no pragmatic way for 33 million biological females to legally distinguish themselves from biological males. Our legal female sex class has to all intents and purposes been replaced by a legal both sexes class that sits under a heading 'gender', that none of us ever signed up to.

So if you perceive somebody as female and learn that they weren't born a female a year into a friendship

In my experience, highly unlikely. I know several transwomen, and it's clear they are natally male. They're not men any more, but they are not the same as women. They're transwomen. And there's nothing wrong with that ...

rocketmen I suggest society changes by accepting gender nonconformity and breaking down sexist stereotypes. As for trans people existing in every culture, it's not really possible to call these groups trans in the same way it's understood in the West. Many of the cultures where 'trans' people exist are extremely homophobic, so being transed was a way for gender non-confirming people to have some sort of place in society without suffering homophobic abuse or being killed. Or, for example, the there is the case of Albania's sworn virgins, taking on a male role where there was a shortage of men in the family, in a culture of inequality for men and women. None of this is comparable to a tolerant western society that accepts homosexuality and allows women the same rights as men. As for trans men, the same applies, you can't change sex. Trans men are included in feminism as they are born female. Please do some more reading on FWR, all these issues have been discussed many times before and this is going over old ground and causing speaking at cross purposes.

Because that 3% are seeking to redefine 100% of women and girls in order to make any legal recognition of our biological sex forbidden

Yes, yes, yes @Barracker

I, too, have said this consistently: I don't care so much about lavatories (personally, but I know others do & I totally get that), but what I object to is the attempt by conservative transactivists to fundamentally redefine the very definition of what it is to be a woman.

And any questions about that, any debate about that, is shut down & our jobs threatened (yes, that happened to me).

they're instantly less human in your eyes and don't deserve to be referred to by the pronouns they ask you to.

I'm pretty confident that most posters on this board see male humans as entirely human.
Knowing a person is male is not dehumanising.
Refusing to pretend I am the same sex as anyone male is not dehumanising to the male person.
Reserving female pronouns for people of my own sex isn't dehumanising for male people.

Demanding that an entire sex class of women submit to pretending that male people are now female because they know how to contour and have pretty bayalage? That would seem to suggest that a person doesn't see members of the female sex as quite as human as the male sex they are expected to pander to and validate.