What are fishies? Channel 4 Big Fat Quiz of the Year

[Procrastinator2]

Just that. A question on the Big Fat Quiz of the Year posed by drag queens, what are fishies.

Programme presented by Jimmy Carr. Participants Noel Fielding, someone who does the BA security videos, @AsimC86, Roisin Conaty, Maya Jama, MTV presenter and former girlfriend of Stormzy, Richard Ayoade and Dara O'Briain.
It would not be acceptable for any other group of people to be named accordingly to the supposed smell of their genitals, but it's ok when it comes to women, channel 4.

Ok but your implication was that women who do not believe in sex changes are not trans supporters and I was merely pointing out that this is not true.

I am afraid that, whilst I respect you as a poster, I have no respect for your view that men can change in to women. None.

@cushycat understood and thank you for clarifying. I’m afraid the vitriol I’ve seen on here (not from you) suggests that many people are quite hateful towards the trans community.

The feminist section of mumsnet is not my experience of intersectional feminism and I should remember to avoid

Tbf I have not seen this. Intersectional feminism is not about men!

@cushycat the thing is I’m a sex positive, intersectional feminist who believes trans are women. There are many many feminists out there who are with me and they all identify as intersectional; in fact most are women of colour. Our views are really not accepted on mumsnet

The feminist section of mumsnet is not my experience of intersectional feminism and I should remember to avoid

There's really no need for 'Intersectional Feminism". Feminism has always embraced all women - regardless of class, race, ethnicity, age, disability...because feminism is about what unites us all as women; our commonality; regardless of background. Sisterhood is universal.

I’m a sex positive, intersectional feminist

'Intersectionalism' sounds a bit like a cookbook, to me - listing all of the 'necessary' ingredients in their 'correct' measure. In my mind it divides women and creates hierarchies of oppression.

And you don't have to be an intersectional feminist to be positive about and enjoy sex. Is 'sex positive' shorthand for seeing prostitution as empowering for women by any chance?

@justhadathought so you’re basically telling women of colour they’re wrong....ok

*There are many many feminists out there who are with me and they all identify as intersectional8

Why is it seen as necessary to have to 'identify' as something? In such a self conscious manner?

@justhadathought so you’re basically telling women of colour they’re wrong

Don't try and pull that one...it won't wash, i'm afraid. I said nothing of the sort. It is pretty racist to suggest, anyway, that all black women think alike. They certainly don't!

@justhadathought so you’re basically telling women of colour they’re wrong

And to break down your post above a bit more....... are you really suggesting there should never be any disagreement with a woman, just because she happens to be of another ethnicity or race?

@justhadathought no of course they don’t, however, Intersectional feminism was started by black women who felt mainstream feminism didn’t represent them. Your comment is basically negating their view. I’m white, but arab. I have found intersectional feminism resonates more with me due to the greater understanding of colonialism / appropriation it represents that I don’t see in mainstream feminism. That is my truth, but I understand if it isn’t yours

How has this thread gone from women complaining about the use of the word "fish" on TV with the meaning it has in drag, to women being told off for, not sure what really. Being 'sex negative' I think it is.

Saying it's empowering for women to be prostituted is not a feminism that 'resonates' with me.

See, women are allowed to disagree!

@FrogsFrogs I’m not telling anyone off. I’m just making the point that the feminist section of mumsnet is pretty exclusive. And of course women disagree.

An intersectional BAME feminist who believe transwomen are women?

Nice to meet you. IRL I don't know any feminist // woman who thinks transwomen are actually women. Even the BAME ones.

Could you explain what you understand by the term woman?

@midgebabe I could give you a whole host of women on twitter who do. Try feministajones

I amn't a twitter person.

So what is a woman?

I don't really understand the correlation between a feminist who doesn't believe transwomen are women and the support of sex workers?
Are you suggesting that someone who is gender critical can't be concerned about the welfare of sex workers or be supportive of women of colour?
What is 'sex positive'? Shouldn't that really be 'sex work positive' because that's what it really means doesn't it?

justhadathought
so you’re basically telling women of colour they’re wrong

Blimey- if one ever needed a really simple explanation and clear example of "a straw man argument" one need look no further than what Strongmummy has just done.

The sheer brass neck is , well impressive isn't perhaps quite the right word for something so low, but I hope you get my drift.

@midgebabe well that might help you understand that there are plenty of us around. 🤣🤣🤣

Ladies I’m going to bow out. It’s just reminded me why the feminist section of mumsnet isn’t for me. Have a good evening

I accept that trans women are women (I know that’s unpopular here but I do)

Aside from Caitlyn Jenner and Jazz Jennings Blaire White is probably the highest profile trans woman around. Compared to Jenner and Jennings White seems extremely at ease with herself and comfortable in her own skin.

White acknowledges she (and yes I am happy to give her the courtesy of "she") is still biologically male and does not agree trans women are women.

Ladies I’m going to bow out. It’s just reminded me why the feminist section of mumsnet isn’t for me. Have a good evening

Why is it that the question "what is a woman?" is so tricky for some people? Especially when those people seem ever so sure of their beliefs. It's odd that they seem unable to explain them.

I wouldn't bother engaging with Strongmummy. Her version of sex positive feminism is being glad she didn't breastfeed because if she did her breasts would have been ruined.

I’m white, but arab. I have found intersectional feminism resonates more with me due to the greater understanding of colonialism / appropriation it represents that I don’t see in mainstream feminism

I'm not really sure what 'mainstream' feminism is meant to look like, if I'm honest. Feminism is about women and their lived experience as women in whatever culture.

I'm not sure someone like Ayan Hirsi Ali, for example, has any need to call herself an 'intersectional feminist'. She's just a feminist, who happens to be of Somali origin and muslim background. I can read her story and understand her life as she's lived it...even if a very different culture to mine...but what I can directly relate to is her experiences around being female in the culture from which she arose.