What are fishies? Channel 4 Big Fat Quiz of the Year

[Procrastinator2]

Just that. A question on the Big Fat Quiz of the Year posed by drag queens, what are fishies.

Programme presented by Jimmy Carr. Participants Noel Fielding, someone who does the BA security videos, @AsimC86, Roisin Conaty, Maya Jama, MTV presenter and former girlfriend of Stormzy, Richard Ayoade and Dara O'Briain.
It would not be acceptable for any other group of people to be named accordingly to the supposed smell of their genitals, but it's ok when it comes to women, channel 4.

There is so much stuff that women have been complaining about for years (not all women, but topics in feminism for literally decades)

Being called names that aren't ours (marriage etc)-trivial apparently
Being called ladies -also trivial

Sure there's more but point is orgs changed quicksmart when it was people other than women complaining.

Just the other day a post with a woman annoyed about not being addressed as her name. Happens all the time. Told is trivial.

But if it's because of how you iD, it's a hate crime.. how does that work then? Women have been told not to get upset about being misnamed for years..

Isn't drag itself trans-erasure, though? Stonewall may put drag under the trans umbrella, but that's meaningless because everybody is under the trans umbrella. But if drag is basically about males performing feminine stereotypes and being applauded for the most extreme performances, then doesn't it mimic what transwomen do? Mimic it more successfully in terms of 'passing', and even more in terms of public acceptance and validation?

Well yeah but logical comprehensibility is not what's of interest to these people.

Interestingly I was in a blokey sort of a pub earlier and a man brought up, with no prompting, what a load of bollocks self ID is... Interesting.

Probably, yes. So the motivation for the Trans foot stamping here is because they are trying to conceal the Wizard of Oz behind the curtain, but it still has the same effect of shunting misogyny to a minor point in the grand drama of their existence.

I turned it off when those abominations were wafting their crotches.

Where they, hopefully, will fail, is that even bog standard misogynists have wives and daughters...

It irks to have to wait for bog standard men to step in, and I say that kindly, I know a lot of more, um, unreconstucted men.

But they sure as fuck aren't going to listen to women.

Where they, hopefully, will fail, is that even bog standard misogynists have wives and daughters...

But the best way for a bog standard misogynist to keep his women safe is to control them. A return to the subjugation of women, to strict feminine roles and male guardianship would please both trans ideologues and gender critical misogynists.

But your bog standard men don't want random men in the ladies, changing rooms etc with their female relatives...

What it boils down to probably, is whether bog standard man (and again no insult, I'm bog standard myself) would rather the non men away from them, or in with the women...

It's kind of what it boils down to.

In general, and I'm not a GNC man so no experience, I think in general the immense danger talked about is about men attacking GNC men. Which happens of course, but this is a violent men /masculinity problem isn't it? So sort that out. I don't get why some sorts of men should be given 'refuge' with the women but not others. It makes no sense.

Also most men really are fine. Where I live the young men wear skirts makeup etc no one says anything... Or even bats much of an eyelid I mean it's all been done before 70s 80s etc..

And of course women girls get shit all the fucking time.

If you are thinking of complaining, I would really recommend swerving the whole trans issue.

Keep it focused on "it is horrific to suggest women's genitals smell like fish". Focus on the misogyny and hateful nature of the subsequent wafting actions.

This is easier to intellectually parse for an underpaid complaints' handler than the complex mind wrangling of being offended by people who are offended because not having a vagina excludes you from smelling like fish.

But your bog standard men don't want random men in the ladies, changing rooms etc with their female relatives...

And you're back to one side seeing women as private property, the other as public property. Neither is welcome.

Franku I just checked out Twitter, because I was astounded that trans people could make this about them. But they really can, and do.

Surprised face

Hairy couldn't agree more.
Have sent a complaint asking them to explain why they think it's acceptable to say that about women.

This is about plain old misogyny.

Isn't drag itself trans-erasure, though? Stonewall may put drag under the trans umbrella, but that's meaningless because everybody is under the trans umbrella. But if drag is basically about males performing feminine stereotypes and being applauded for the most extreme performances, then doesn't it mimic what transwomen do? Mimic it more successfully in terms of 'passing', and even more in terms of public acceptance and validation?

Yes and I think some TRAs think it should be banned for being transphobic.

I am genuinely shocked (I know nothing should shock me anymore) but theviviene apologising to men for transphobia rather than to women for misogyny is jaw dropping. Women really are worth nothing to these people.

I agree marmite - I am furious that the implication is that women are privileged by suffering misogynistic insults like fishy referring to their vaginas and therefore it is transphobic rather than misogynistic!

Women really can’t have anything for ourselves, not even shitty insults

I have been reading through the twitter threads to try to understand the logic.
It's a completely different world, with no real idea as to what the problem is. They have been attacked by TRAs and think that is the issue with it. It genuinely is like women are invisible in their world.

I don't Know quite what to make of it. They must have mothers/sisters/aunts.

They live in a world without women

It genuinely is like women are invisible in their world

I think it is just that Mums, Aunties and Nannas tend always to be supportive...as do female friends and allies. Women are expected to support without question - even when for many of us we've never liked drag; found it offensive - but said nothing for all of those years.

The problem is - the TRA movement has completely changed the environment. We can no longer sit back and say nothing.

The TRA movement will turn on its own supporters in a heartbeat. Good. It shows them what it is like for the rest of us.

Thanks all for the responses. I wish I could unsee this TV show. The fishy 'wafting your crotch' insult (and the subsequent framing of it on Twitter as transphobic rather than misogynist) appear to offer more evidence that it's not only acceptable but actually fashionable to either deride or entirely ignore society's mothers, sisters, nieces, daughters, grandmas. I complained about the insult to C4 and to Ofcom. I don't think it will make a difference, but I couldn't think what else to do.

If you are thinking of complaining, I would really recommend swerving the whole trans issue

Absolutely agree! The TRAs can destroy their own credibility all on their own; and they will inevitably do so.

The TRAs want in on the ‘fishies’ slur? Happy to hand it over lock, stock.

Microflora of the penile skin-lined neovagina of transsexual women

‘Under normal conditions, the lower female genital tract harbors a commensal microflora that primarily consists of lactobacilli which confer antimicrobial protection to the vagina. In addition, under adequate vaginal estrogen levels, the vaginal epithelium and its associated mucous layers help to regulate and support the intrinsic bacterial and mucosal defense system’

‘Although this was not a study criterion and therefore not scored, a foul smell of the vagina was observed in most [MtF] patients.’

‘This study is the first to describe the microflora of the penile skin-lined neovagina of transsexual women. The neovaginal microflora were devoided of lactobacilli and consisted of a mixed microflora of aerobe and anaerobe species usually found either on the skin, in the intestine or in bacterial vaginosis.’

BV microflora. As standard.

(And evidence of a trans-exclusionary tendency in lactobacilli.)

Maybe they are sponsored by all the products that depend on women being worried their genitals smell.

That would make sense.