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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Forced to share a room with a TW

261 replies

ILoveJKR · 20/12/2019 20:24

I am in a quandary and cannot talk about this in real life so I hope some of you can understand. Some background information for explanation.
I have a hobby which is mostly male orientated but which a lot of women indulge in too. The hobby has several different ways of enjoying it, think cycling where you can compete, or go for days out, or challenge yourself, visit museums or exhibitions devoted to this hobby, etc. I also belong to several clubs for this hobby.
I met a TW who happens to like the same part of the hobby as I enjoy, so we are often together indulging our shared interest. I care for TW in the same way as I would care for any human being, but I cannot really say the TW is a friend. We have no shared experiences, TW is a bit awkward and over-sensitive socially and looks and mostly behaves like a man but because we are together so often everyone assumes that we are besties.
I have twice shared accommodation with TW on hobby trips (my choice) but I always get changed in the loo and leave the room when TW gets changed. I'm accepting that people can live however they like but males should not be in female spaces.
So, onto my dilemma. One of my clubs has organised an overnight trip to a competition with 5 men and 3 women and TW. The man organising the trip does not know TW is a TW and the two other women do not know TW is a TW. Their only contact to date is via a watsapp group and TW uses a feminine name.
I know that it will be assumed that I invited TW on the trip. But the person joined my club and booked without ever discussing it with me. Free country and all that, I cannot control who joins what club and who books on what trip, but the organiser has put us 3 women and TW in one room (cheap hostel accommodation). And I know that there will be awkwardness for the other two women when they find out they are sharing with an XY person. And I know it will come back on me because everyone assumes TW is my 'friend'.
This is a real-life example for me that we cannot allow this fiction to continue. Men cannot become women and women should not be forced to share their spaces.

OP posts:
APomInOz · 21/12/2019 12:09

Not your problem, you only control yourself. Your reaction is too involved.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 21/12/2019 12:10

. 'Most dorms I've stayed in have been mixed. So in this specific circumstance I think a mountain is being made out of a molehill'

But the vast majority of sexual assaults in hostels take place in mixed sex dorms - it's why the YHA went down the (controversial on here) route of keeping its dorms separate but allowing identification by gender rather than avoiding the issue altogether by making everything mixed sex, as some people wanted them to do.
The fact that mixed sex dorms exist doesn't mean everyone is OK with using them.

TheCraneWife · 21/12/2019 12:12

...which applies to a person with a particular characteristic?

There is BAME but it is generally used in the context of a group and is an established acronym rather than made up on MN. In any case there are many individuals within the BAME group who dislike it so I don't think it compares.

2BthatUnnoticed · 21/12/2019 12:12

I don’t mind “TW” itself as a term, I’ve seen trans/NB people use it - never heard anybody object to it. But somehow OP’s use of it was just... off.

LangCleg · 21/12/2019 12:12

Carry on defending "TW" . It really isn't a good look.

Some people believe the world should be organised by soi disant gender identity, others by the materiality of sex. It is not the fault of the latter if censor restrictions are put on their ability to use language that accurately corresponds to their views. Complain to MNHQ, who are mandating these ludicrous linguistic contortions.

Oblomov19 · 21/12/2019 12:13

Tricky.

How much is the room? Can you book one of your own?

Phone someone. Don't write anything down.

isabellerossignol · 21/12/2019 12:14

Imagine the TW. You think someone is your friend and it turns out they've seen fit to warn everyone about you?

The OP has said all along that they're not friends, they are just people who know each other.

Why shouldn't anyone warn someone else that a third party is not who they are implying they are?

TheCraneWife · 21/12/2019 12:17

2BthatUnnoticed

I don’t mind “TW” itself as a term, I’ve seen trans/NB people use it - never heard anybody object to it. But somehow OP’s use of it was just... off

It was. It was so dismissive.Your alternative wording for the introduction is much better.

TheCraneWife · 21/12/2019 12:20

The OP has said all along that they're not friends, they are just people who know each other

Er, the OP seems to spend a lot of time doing a shared hobby with this person and has twice shared a bedroom with them.

Clymene · 21/12/2019 12:23

Ah excellent, the ad hominem arguments have started.

HorseWithNoBlueHair · 21/12/2019 12:27

Dear Crane

I'm on the fence on many of the gender critical points made on this forum.

You are just the right person to ask my question which seems to stump most people:

Please could you define the word "woman" without using the word "woman"?

Thanking you in anticipation.

isabellerossignol · 21/12/2019 12:29

Sharing a hobby with someone and sharing a room with them doesn't mean you're friends. It doesn't even mean you like them. It just means that you have a shared interest and are travelling to the same place at the same time and rooms are being shared to save money.

I've played in orchestras before with people I actively disliked and at least one person who I was terrified of, so spending time pursuing a shared hobby certainly didn't make us friends.

TheCraneWife · 21/12/2019 12:33

The OP has twice voluntarily shared a room with this person. That is not the same as being allocated a shared room with a touring orchestra.

isabellerossignol · 21/12/2019 12:36

Yes, I know that. But that still doesn't necessarily make them friends. It makes them people who agreed to share a room for convenience.

TheCraneWife · 21/12/2019 12:38

HorseWithNoBlueHair

Dear Crane

I'm on the fence on many of the gender critical points made on this forum

You are just the right person to ask my question which seems to stump most people:

Please could you define the word "woman" without using the word "woman"?

Thanking you in anticipation

I bet you think that was a real gotcha question. Woman is biological female. My sitting on the fence referred to certain attitudes expressed on here.

FlyingOink · 21/12/2019 12:38

The OP has said all along that they're not friends, they are just people who know each other.
I missed a word out. Imagine you're the transwoman. You think OP is your friend. OP then rings around and tells everyone about you.
Make sense now?

TheCraneWife · 21/12/2019 12:43

Yes, I know that. But that still doesn't necessarily make them friends. It makes them people who agreed to share a room for convenience

Fine - I'll re- word the point being made.

A person who has spent a lot of time with you on a shared hobby, including voluntarily sharing a bedroom with you, has seen fit to warn everyone about you.

FlyingOink · 21/12/2019 12:45

I think it's reasonable to think that women shouldn't be expected to share facilities with men (no matter how they identify) whilst still being concerned about OP's approach to someone who has actually done nothing wrong.
Jo (as named above!) has shared a room with OP twice so probably thinks other women will be fine with it too. If OP had expressed her concerns earlier or just had a conversation with Jo, then Jo might have considered that booking a single room would be less hassle all round.

This rather contrived situation is nothing like an addicted abused woman who has lost her children and is currently incarcerated with a male-born sex offender. It's not the same situation.
OP has plenty of agency in this scenario, the female prisoner has none.

thatdamnwoman · 21/12/2019 12:46

Just tagging on to say to the OP that she ought not to be forced by default into being constantly paired with the TW. You were quite clear in your OP that you weren't friends, just people who were thrown together, and yet so many posters have commented that you and this TW are friends. I hear it. Can you talk to the organisers of all the events/ clubs you attend and make it clear that you don't want to be permanently paired up with this person?

Can someone remind me which particular type of feminism thinks that women's rights are subordinate to the rights of a man, because it's not one I'm familiar with.

TheCraneWife · 21/12/2019 12:47

FlyingOink

The OP has said all along that they're not friends, they are just people who know each other
I missed a word out. Imagineyou'rethe transwoman.Youthink OP is your friend. OP then rings around and tells everyone about you
Make sense now?

It made sense the first time. This "oh they're not a friend" is splitting hairs.

FlyingOink · 21/12/2019 12:47

yet so many posters have commented that you and this TW are friends
Where?

2BthatUnnoticed · 21/12/2019 12:48

Women = adult human female

female spaces - 100%

But something in the OP (style or syntax or summat) was off... come on people, we should be able to tolerate calling a spade a spade!

TheCraneWife · 21/12/2019 12:51

Just tagging on to say to the OP that she ought not to be forced bydefaultinto being constantly paired with the TW. You were quite clear in your OP that you weren't friends, just people who were thrown together, and yet so many posters have commented that you and this TW are friends. I hear it. Can you talk to the organisers of all the events/ clubs you attend and make it clear that you don't want to be permanently paired up with this person?

There is absolutely nothing in the OP's account which supports the assertion she is forced bydefaultinto being constantly paired with the trans woman.

TheCraneWife · 21/12/2019 12:53

2BthatUnnoticed and FlyingOink

You both make very good points.

FlyingOink · 21/12/2019 12:58

I met a TW who happens to like the same part of the hobby as I enjoy, so we are often together indulging our shared interest. I care for TW in the same way as I would care for any human being, but I cannot really say the TW is a friend. We have no shared experiences, TW is a bit awkward and over-sensitive socially and looks and mostly behaves like a man but because we are together so often everyone assumes that we are besties.

I have twice shared accommodation with TW on hobby trips (my choice)

This just reads wrong to me.
No shared experiences - except the obscure hobby and all the time they spend doing it?
Looks and behaves like a man...non-sequitur about being perceived as friends?
Who has assumed this? Has OP ever challenged it?
From Jo's perspective, if it walks like a friend and quacks like a friend...

And why share a room if you're uncomfortable being associated with this person? If you don't want people to think you are friends?
It's primary school stuff. I never knew hang gliding was like this.