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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Forced to share a room with a TW

261 replies

ILoveJKR · 20/12/2019 20:24

I am in a quandary and cannot talk about this in real life so I hope some of you can understand. Some background information for explanation.
I have a hobby which is mostly male orientated but which a lot of women indulge in too. The hobby has several different ways of enjoying it, think cycling where you can compete, or go for days out, or challenge yourself, visit museums or exhibitions devoted to this hobby, etc. I also belong to several clubs for this hobby.
I met a TW who happens to like the same part of the hobby as I enjoy, so we are often together indulging our shared interest. I care for TW in the same way as I would care for any human being, but I cannot really say the TW is a friend. We have no shared experiences, TW is a bit awkward and over-sensitive socially and looks and mostly behaves like a man but because we are together so often everyone assumes that we are besties.
I have twice shared accommodation with TW on hobby trips (my choice) but I always get changed in the loo and leave the room when TW gets changed. I'm accepting that people can live however they like but males should not be in female spaces.
So, onto my dilemma. One of my clubs has organised an overnight trip to a competition with 5 men and 3 women and TW. The man organising the trip does not know TW is a TW and the two other women do not know TW is a TW. Their only contact to date is via a watsapp group and TW uses a feminine name.
I know that it will be assumed that I invited TW on the trip. But the person joined my club and booked without ever discussing it with me. Free country and all that, I cannot control who joins what club and who books on what trip, but the organiser has put us 3 women and TW in one room (cheap hostel accommodation). And I know that there will be awkwardness for the other two women when they find out they are sharing with an XY person. And I know it will come back on me because everyone assumes TW is my 'friend'.
This is a real-life example for me that we cannot allow this fiction to continue. Men cannot become women and women should not be forced to share their spaces.

OP posts:
TheCraneWife · 21/12/2019 16:07

OP was kind to a shy, awkward male person and they got clingy with her, to the point that they are following her around...

That is an invention. The OP has said nothing about this person "following her around".

Original poster
ILoveJKR · 21/12/2019 16:19

@TheCraneWife, I did allude to that in my original post. The person specifically joined the club where I was already a member just to book this trip. I also said that I feared the transwoman would try to monopolise me as they have done so in the past.
@Kantastic has completely understood the situation.

OP posts:
Kantastic · 21/12/2019 16:21

CraneWife It was not an invention. It was right there in the post with the references to clinginess, and the following line.

But the person joined my club and booked without ever discussing it with me.

I have no desire to debate with you whether that counts as "following someone around." You are comprehensively awful, and I don't plan to discuss anything with you. I only posted on this thread because you are such an appalling person that I felt bad for OP.

Kantastic · 21/12/2019 16:24

OP Flowers and I hope you're OK on this trip! Most people who act like that don't escalate to actual stalking, but it is a huge red flag so trust your gut, and pull out of the trip if it feels unsafe.

NiceLegsShameAboutTheFace · 21/12/2019 16:48

I wouldn’t be at all bothered if I turned up and had to share a room with a TW.

Well, that's fine. But please respect that fact that the majority of women would.

ginghamstarfish · 21/12/2019 16:51

If I were one of the other women I would want to know, then I could make my choice (which would most likely be not to accept the sharing). You say you have shared with this person before, but it's not fair to impose it on others who will have no choice by then.

TheCraneWife · 21/12/2019 16:56

But the person joined my club and booked without ever discussing it with me

Why should "Jo" have discussed it with the OP?

Whatdayisit2 · 21/12/2019 18:24

I suspect they know already. TW rarely look as if they were born XX

2BthatUnnoticed · 21/12/2019 18:28

This info is reasonable to share with others. What they choose to do with it is up to them.

I would have zero issues hanging out with Jo or chatting over dinner, in this highly contrived and suspiciously tuned scenario. I would not share a room with Jo, nor with anyone I didn’t know well who was [recorded male at birth].

And I couldn’t care less if randoms on Twitter call me a bigot for that. My boundaries are none of your business.

I love you all dearly, but some of you are like Corbynistas on this issue. You effectively say “fuck off and join the Tories!” To anyone even slightly away from your line.

Sometimes we get played by actual Tories (to stay in the analogy - no offence to Lass or other Tory voters).

thenightsky · 21/12/2019 18:38

@Whatdayisit2 I said that earlier in the thread, given the OP actually stated that this person does not pass. It was pointed out to me that the two other women sharing had never met the transwoman. I assume this is going to be a big shock on the day for them. Fuck knows how I would react if I was one of those woman.

FlyingOink · 21/12/2019 18:55

It's very possible the "friendship" with you means a lot more to them than it does to you and they are thinking of you in a romantic context.
That's always a possibility.
I thought OP had resolved the issue by having a meeting beforehand so the other two women could see who they would be staying with?
I think that's a better outcome than ringing round. That way they can make up their own minds (good thing) without OP having to warn anyone (bad thing).

YetAnotherSpartacus · 21/12/2019 22:47

Have a meeting and then consider backing out at the last minute on this occasion, but not telling anyone, and in future keep your plans secret. Personally I'd ask any organisers to not put you with TW in the future if they do turn up and I'd also willingly pay more for a private separate room anyway. In other words, treat them like any other annoying person you don't want to be around.

theunknownknown · 22/12/2019 08:19

I suppose my respect for the trans woman's right to self identify trumps that for the bio woman's right to say no
You ain't no feminist bruv

ArabellaDoreenFig · 22/12/2019 08:44

theunknownknown

You put it more succinctly than me, but I just wanted to respond to the comment

my respect for the trans woman's right to self identify trumps that for the bio woman's right to say no

How can anyone think that removing a woman’s right to say no is ever a good thing? In any context?

The continued pushback against women’s rights to their own boundaries is straight out of Gilead, whilst we were keeping our eye on the right and making sure women’s rights were respected the left crept in with their anti-women venom, well we fucking see you and we aren’t standing for it.

#thisisnotadrill

theunknownknown · 22/12/2019 09:10

Exactly ArabellaDoreenFig
We see it and we are not standing for it any longer.
This thread feeds in to the much bigger picture of the erosion of our rights in plain sight and us colluding in it to be nice.
Feck that. Even my previously woke 20 year old daughter now sees it. Once you do it is impossible to believe you ever didn't see it.
I'm glad the spotlight is on this issue.
I would go as far to say that the GRA needs repealing.

isabellerossignol · 22/12/2019 09:21

I would go as far to say that the GRA needs repealing.

It definitely needs repealing, it's crazy that it was ever passed in the first place.

Fieldofgreycorn · 22/12/2019 09:37

I’m really conflicted about this. On the one hand the women may not be happy or feel frightened or that their boundaries are being violated.

On the other it must be horrible to feel that you are genuinely a woman (or should have been born one) and then know that people think you are something so awful that they need to warn other people about you.

The pre meet is a good idea if they all turn up. I would be interested to know how nhs gender identity clinics advise their patients in these situations.

Thelnebriati · 22/12/2019 09:47

No one is saying that a trans person is so awful other people need to be warned.
People are saying that women shouldn't be put in a position where they feel obliged to share a mixed sex room, and too embarassed to say no.

2BthatUnnoticed · 22/12/2019 09:51

There is nothing “awful” about someone having a gender identity, nor about being born male or female. It is just basic info for goodness sakes. Anyway this thread is weird so I’m out.

HorseWithNoBlueHair · 22/12/2019 10:19

On the other it must be horrible to feel that you are genuinely a woman..

Ah! There's that feel word again.

2BthatUnnoticed · 22/12/2019 10:29

My point was.. it’s not this dark secret someone is being “warned” about. It’s basic info. I’d want to know whether someone snored for goodness sakes. Let alone whether someone was a different sex.

testing987654321 · 22/12/2019 10:42

On the other it must be horrible to feel that you are genuinely a woman (or should have been born one) and then know that people think you are something so awful that they need to warn other people about you.

I don't think people with gender dysphoria are awful. I do think a male who considers themselves a woman is not actually a woman and I would not want to encounter them anywhere I would not want to encounter perfectly nice men like my son or father.

I think people with gender dysphoria need to learn to accept their sex even if they present as the opposite sex.

Much like friends who are alcoholics have to deal with a world where people drink at most social events.

The world doesn't prioritise any one person's feelings so we all have to deal as best we can. Expecting women to share with a male without asking them first is unreasonable.

FFSFFSFFS · 22/12/2019 10:43

On the other it must be horrible to feel that you are genuinely a woman (or should have been born one) and then know that people think you are something so awful that they need to warn other people about you

Well do you feel terribly sorry for all the men going on the trip who have been told they are not sharing with the women?? This is so incredibly disingenuous. She''s not going to warn them because this person is "so awful" - she wants to warn the other women because this person is not a woman and the single sex room will not be a single sex room but will be a mixed sex room.

This transwoman would indeed face many challenges I'm sure. None of these are more important than the women in the room who have the right to not share with a male bodied person for any reason whatsoever.

Tranwomen''s feelings are not more important than actual women's feelings and indeed their safety. The transwoman is as likely or unlikely as any other male on the trip to assault a woman.....

If this was about excluding the transwoman from the dinner table totally different issue.

Kilbranan · 22/12/2019 10:49

I agree with kantastic and would also be a bit worried that the friendship with ‘jo’ meant more to them than it does to OP.
And I suspect some of the awkwardness of the wording of op was due to trying to avoid use of pronouns. It can really tie things up in knots!

isabellerossignol · 22/12/2019 11:02

I don't think that someone with gender dysphoria is awful either.

But I do think that someone with gender dysphoria who thinks that their feelings matter more than women's feelings is awful.

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