Forced to share a room with a TW

[ILoveJKR]

I am in a quandary and cannot talk about this in real life so I hope some of you can understand. Some background information for explanation.
I have a hobby which is mostly male orientated but which a lot of women indulge in too. The hobby has several different ways of enjoying it, think cycling where you can compete, or go for days out, or challenge yourself, visit museums or exhibitions devoted to this hobby, etc. I also belong to several clubs for this hobby.
I met a TW who happens to like the same part of the hobby as I enjoy, so we are often together indulging our shared interest. I care for TW in the same way as I would care for any human being, but I cannot really say the TW is a friend. We have no shared experiences, TW is a bit awkward and over-sensitive socially and looks and mostly behaves like a man but because we are together so often everyone assumes that we are besties.
I have twice shared accommodation with TW on hobby trips (my choice) but I always get changed in the loo and leave the room when TW gets changed. I'm accepting that people can live however they like but males should not be in female spaces.
So, onto my dilemma. One of my clubs has organised an overnight trip to a competition with 5 men and 3 women and TW. The man organising the trip does not know TW is a TW and the two other women do not know TW is a TW. Their only contact to date is via a watsapp group and TW uses a feminine name.
I know that it will be assumed that I invited TW on the trip. But the person joined my club and booked without ever discussing it with me. Free country and all that, I cannot control who joins what club and who books on what trip, but the organiser has put us 3 women and TW in one room (cheap hostel accommodation). And I know that there will be awkwardness for the other two women when they find out they are sharing with an XY person. And I know it will come back on me because everyone assumes TW is my 'friend'.
This is a real-life example for me that we cannot allow this fiction to continue. Men cannot become women and women should not be forced to share their spaces.

I've read feminist threads here where people are incandescent with rage that M&S now offers unisex changing rooms.

Have you seen all the lovely reviews men are leaving on M+S’ website about how well the ladies knickers contain their junk? So womens underwear is now being designed for men? They’re also wanking off in them, in womens cubicles and putting them back on the racks for unsuspecting women to buy. (not envy). My 9 year old will be needing bras in the next year or 2. Do I want her being measured next to someone getting off on it? Why shouldn’t she have privacy? (They’re posting this stuff on public sites FFS so don’t deny this is happening. A huge proportion of “TW” are men with fetishes. Wake up.)

By the way, TW violent offences are in line with men, not women. Surprising, not.

A challenge to the 'male gaze' point - what about lesbians? Are we uncomfortable that they might look inappropriately at bio women too?

I’m glad you brought up lesbians. What’s the definition of lesbian? A women who is sexually attracted to women. But they are now being told they must accept that people with dicks can be lesbians. The meaning of lesbian is being eradicated by TW at present. How is that okay? Are gay men being told they must accept someone with a vagina? No.

Google Jessica/Jonathan Yaniv and get back to me on that whole “TW are the victims” bollocks.

Forgot to say Hi to Floral as I pass through

Thank you to the posters who pointed out that the TW has only met the OP, not the other females who will be sharing. I must have missed that in my vodka and lemonade haze

I suppose my respect for the trans woman's right to self identify trumps that for the bio woman's right to say no.

Well. At least that's honest.

Please be aware that even if this thread is genuine it will still be a great hunting ground for ‘Mumsnet is full of terfs’ screen shots.

I’m as GC as they come but I have to say that sharing a room with a TW wouldn’t bother me that much. If it was sharing a room with anyone I didn’t know then I would be getting changed in the bathroom anyway.
I wouldn’t be doing any hobby that involved me sharing a room with random people though to be fair.

I dunno. Something about this breathless kind of OP reminds me of that white dude who moved to Atlanta, and posted on Twitter asking for advice on dealing with Black people.

They are just people, you know? Not a different species.

To me the real question is... why spend so much time around someone you don’t even like?

You might also be called insensitive if you make a big fuss about it, so it's difficult either way.

@pegsworth nobody at all has the right to force someone in to a situation that they fel greatly uncomfortable in, no transwoman, no straight woman, no man, no transman and you really need to reassess you 'acceptance at all and any cost' stance you have adopted.

I would tell the organiser I was not happy to share with a man FFS.

You get changed in the bog and then leave the room so he can let his junk hang out? Where is your mind at?

I had a very similar scenario. I host young foreign language students in our home. I strictly only host girls for various reasons. Collected one pair and it was a girl and a boy with eye shadow on. They were sharing a room and under 16 so put me in breach of regulations and dh furious our no boys rule for our home ignored. Our girls quite little and put their foot in it frequently “but he’s a boy mummy”. It was a long week.

Have lurked on here and suspect you're right. If this person has no problem with sharing a room with this person I'm not sure why they're posting this. They would surely think it transphobic not to be fine with it and would treat it as no big deal. So if the other two minded, it wouldn't be the OP's problem. I'm wondering if this is a trawl for screenshots of how intolerant the evil bigots who believe in sex-based rights and privacy are... It doesn't make sense to me that OP would care what they other thought if she was genuinely cool with it (or this was a real situation).

I suppose my respect for the trans woman's right to self identify trumps that for the bio woman's right to say no.

Said no feminist ever.

Yeah, I don’t get the OP either, but pegsworth’s contribution was extraordinary.

@MsTSwift - that's horrendous. If that breached regulations how did you deal with it?

The male gaze is not just simple sexual attraction pegsworth

It’s about entitlement and disrespect and objectification.

I have twice been sexually assaulted by men (empty underground tube train and unisex toilets at a gig)

I now conduct my life by avoiding any situation I consider may risk this occurring again. That very much includes being asleep next to a male body I don’t 100% trust.

I have shared a hostel room with my brother and with a male friend I know very, very well but I would never, ever sleep next to a male body I don’t know and that unfortunately also has to include a TW.

It isn’t a personal accusation of their risk to me. It’s the way I now risk assess my life which I have been forced to do due to my past experiences.

NAMALT. I married one and have given birth to three. I have male friends.

But being trans identifying does not erase the risk of that male body and the statistics and crime reports would confirm that whilst numbers are small, some TW have offended by assaulting women.

So they remain included in my male body risk assessment behaviour

Society is now telling me I can no longer use the equality act to help me in my risk avoidance as spaces I would previously have been using during times of more vulnerability (undressing, sleeping, toiletting) are now open to all.

This means it is my life that is affected, my mental health and my enjoyment of everyday activities. Because of what men did to me.

My TW friend totally understands this and does not use these facilities for this reason and would say that their transition has actually allowed them to understand being a woman more and how this affects behaviour and as such they are willing not to blithely take what society is offering them for risk of placing other women under undue stress.
Because they are just as kind as I keep being told to be.

I was going to ask the same question to MsTSwift. Do you still host? I would have been furious. I have a young DD, and not sure what I'd do, particularly as you've made a very clear rule for your house. Probably make the young boy with eye shadow share a room with my 18year old son! Actually I'd probably just have DD in with me all week, and she'd definitely be asking very direct questions to the boy wearing eye shadow.

We were very concerned about liability to the girls parents. The head of the language school was in a panic. I felt i couldn’t reject the student as we were standing in a car park in the dark at pick up and they were only kids. I wanted confirmation that the sharing girls parents consented. The kids were happy about it we were not especially dh who felt our boundaries violated as he explicitly won’t let me host teen boys as we have girls ourselves and rooms adjacent it’s his one rule.

People need to understand this is not a therotical debate there are real consequences which played out in my own house!

I agree with 2BthatUnnoticed brendansbuddy MsMaisel - there is something just a bit off about all this. The OP spends apparently a lot of time with this person, this person thinks the OP is a friend, the OP has shared a room with her , so I'm not really getting the reason for the OP's angst. I agree also that her wording is dehumanising and would be of any trans person- in the context of a person who (on the basis of their shared experiences in their hobby) thinks the OP is her friend it is even more unpleasant.

People need to understand this is not a therotical debate there are real consequences which played out in my own house!

Your situation is not comparable with this. The OP is an adult who has made her own choice to be involved in activities and to socialise and share rooms with a trans woman.

Comment below about mixed sex accommodation not be unusual for some hobbies, so it's a mountain out of a molehill. I agree with the first part, but not the second.

I have a hobby that has led to mixed sex accommodation

Every time, the males have deferred to the females on room allocations. I have always been given option, who I share with
.
They see that as due respect. And normal.

Putting a Male in with other women because he identifies as a woman is nor normal and not respectful

Anyone noticed the OP has buggered off? That may tell you all you need to know...

This is an oddly specific scenario. It's probably too specific to explain without it seeming contrived. Either that or it is specifically cooked up for screenshots.

OP, the person you've shared rooms with before and who knows you probably thinks of you as a friend. It's up to you to set some boundaries if you feel that person is not respectful. As for the shared room, why would it be your fault? You didn't book it, you didn't vouch for that person, there's no evidence you were consulted at all.
The premise is that you want to make friends with the two women you haven't met yet, and feel this could be hampered by the presence of the transwoman? And that somehow the two women will be upset with you about it? What makes you think they would blame you?
It just seems a very unlikely scenario. In case it is true, I'd advise you to either go, and deal with whatever comes up, or cancel. It's not your responsibility to warn anyone and you're likely to get in trouble if you do, it's also not your responsibility to help the transwoman make friends or to make up for any social awkwardness. All you can control is whether you are present or not.
I feel sorry for everyone involved in this situation, tbh. Ultimately I think the transwoman should have requested a single room, but that would require a great deal of sensitivity and empathy and from what you say this is unlikely.

@ILoveJKR I think you're doing the right thing with the meet and greet. The other women can make their own decisions after meeting the TW. Personally if I were one of the other women who turned up at the event and found I was expected to share a room with a male without prior warning, I would first be devastated and then pretty angry having to abruptly deal with finding other accommodation or returning home, losing time and likely money, rather than spending time doing something that I enjoyed and had probably been looking forward to. With prior warning I'd at least be able to make my own accommodation arrangements. I hope the meet and greet works out.