Forced to share a room with a TW

[ILoveJKR]

I am in a quandary and cannot talk about this in real life so I hope some of you can understand. Some background information for explanation.
I have a hobby which is mostly male orientated but which a lot of women indulge in too. The hobby has several different ways of enjoying it, think cycling where you can compete, or go for days out, or challenge yourself, visit museums or exhibitions devoted to this hobby, etc. I also belong to several clubs for this hobby.
I met a TW who happens to like the same part of the hobby as I enjoy, so we are often together indulging our shared interest. I care for TW in the same way as I would care for any human being, but I cannot really say the TW is a friend. We have no shared experiences, TW is a bit awkward and over-sensitive socially and looks and mostly behaves like a man but because we are together so often everyone assumes that we are besties.
I have twice shared accommodation with TW on hobby trips (my choice) but I always get changed in the loo and leave the room when TW gets changed. I'm accepting that people can live however they like but males should not be in female spaces.
So, onto my dilemma. One of my clubs has organised an overnight trip to a competition with 5 men and 3 women and TW. The man organising the trip does not know TW is a TW and the two other women do not know TW is a TW. Their only contact to date is via a watsapp group and TW uses a feminine name.
I know that it will be assumed that I invited TW on the trip. But the person joined my club and booked without ever discussing it with me. Free country and all that, I cannot control who joins what club and who books on what trip, but the organiser has put us 3 women and TW in one room (cheap hostel accommodation). And I know that there will be awkwardness for the other two women when they find out they are sharing with an XY person. And I know it will come back on me because everyone assumes TW is my 'friend'.
This is a real-life example for me that we cannot allow this fiction to continue. Men cannot become women and women should not be forced to share their spaces.

What's a TW?

I have a transsexual friend whom I used to share rooms with on holidays because I was the only person who knew their secret out of our friends group. I had no problems doing so at the time but I also knew them very well and we were good friends. I also wouldn’t have been naked in front of anyone at all back then. I’m still great friends with this person and I’d have no qualms about sharing again with them but not someone I didnt know very well or didn’t like very much... then again I’d feel the same with a biological female I wasn’t too keen on either although I guess I’d do it if I had to and I wouldn’t with a ransom transwoman at all.

I’m not sure I’d be outing them to the others though. That could backfire spectacularly.

I think if you are happy to share a room with four strangers then a TW is unlikely to phase you.

“ I'm also concerned that their husbands may object to them sharing with an XY person.”

Very overbearing of you there.

Can all the posters who think they are being so cool with their "cool story bro" simply report if they think this is a troll thread rather than posting their oh so obscure snarky comments?

Stinky, The TW really doesn't pass. The other women know that I know the person but don't know they are trans and it could backfire on me when they find out..."Why didn't you tell us?"

I would back out of this trip and let the others deal with it

Join a new club

I think if you are happy to share a room with four strangers then a TW is unlikely to phase you

I agree. According to the OP none of these people have met in person apart from the OP and the trans woman. That to me says these are people who are comfortable with situations I'd avoid at all costs.

I'm going to go with Bonny's suggestion and organise a get-together before we go.
And I'm leaving this thread now. Thank you those who have understood and given good advice.

A trans woman to me is someone who identifies as a woman. I respect that person's right to self-identify as such, and I don't feel the need to check their genitals or do a DNA test to decide whether they are woman enough.

I have a genuine question - what are we afraid of? That the trans woman will attack us if we share a room? Will sexually assault us? Some posters here suggest even sharing a bathroom is not ok, even when there are individual cubicles. What is the concern there?

I consider myself liberal and also a strong feminist. I am really troubled by what some rad fems say, and see the pain their views cause the LGBTQ community, which includes a lot of my friends.

Again, I'm really not trying to argue or rile anyone up. I've read a lot on this subject but I'm still none the wiser as to what the issue is for the minority of feminists who feel this way.

Tell the organiser. Or organise a Skype.

But I'm betting the other women go along with it anyway, even if they don't like the situation, because they won't want to make a fuss.

It's nothing to do with transphobia. Would you be happy getting undressed in front of and sharing a room with someone like Alex Drummond just as you would with female friends?

Good question. Pegsworth will be back to answer it, I'm sure.

OP, how do you know the other two women you're sharing with aren't transwomen anyway? Especially likely give it's a typically male-dominated activity.

I don't see how anyone would blame you for the situation as you didn't organise the room booking.

@pegsworth I can assure you that as a person who had to fight off a rapist in a hotel room I would definitely care about this - if I knew the TW well I'd probably be ok with it, but if I was suddenly told I'd be sharing with a strange biologically male person I'd completely panic. No, I don't think most males are rapists, but my stupid traumatised brain doesn't know which ones are, and since TW display the same offending patterns as other males I think I'm fully justified in my position.

No woman should suddenly be confronted with having to share a room with an unknown adult male.

I think you should warn the women privately.

havelock I'm really sorry you've had that experience. That sounds awful. But I would suggest that it is that experience which needs resolving, rather than that trans women won't have the right to be in female spaces.

If you look at the statistics, the likelihood of a trans woman attacking you is no higher than that of a bio woman attacking you. I look at it from the trans woman's perspective - how extremely hurtful it must be to always be regarded with suspicion, like someone who's pretending to be a woman in order to sneak into female spaces and rape people. People used to regard gay people with the same suspicion, particularly hetero men towards gay men. And as society has progressed, we now recognise that way of thinking to what outdated and discriminatory. It's a matter of time before the same position is adopted universally with regards to trans people.

@pegsworth
a trans woman to me is someone who identifies as a woman. I respect that person's right to self-identify as such, and I don't feel the need to check their genitals or do a DNA test to decide whether they are woman enough.

Do you also respect the right of a female to not want to share a room with a trans woman?
To me, a trans woman is someone who is trying to have the outward appearance of a woman, whether by wearing traditional women's clothing or by having surgery and anything else between these two extremes. They are not, and never can be, an actual woman. This is determined purely by DNA. Similarly, taking testosterone or having surgery to give me an appendage that looks like a penis does not turn me into a man.

OP, in this situation, I would try to arrange my own accommodation. I'd explain that I wasn't comfortable with sharing accommodation.

I've been deleted already, but just for everyone here on this thread, do not post anything that can be used as a screenshot

Havelock's post makes sense to me. I was groped through my sleeping bag while I was trying to sleep on a North Sea ferry and hence would be wary of sharing a sleeping area with strange men. Not trauma, more risk assessment.
I would be fine with men I know (with a few exceptions) and whether they are trans or not wouldn't make any difference - as it happens the transwomen I know personally (as opposed to the bonkers ones online) wouldn't bother me. But the risk assessment would apply to transwomen the same as to men who identify as men, because that's reality.

soontobe I suppose my respect for the trans woman's right to self identify trumps that for the bio woman's right to say no. Particularly as I'm still not hearing a cogent argument for saying no, as the point about attacks doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

What does it mean to you to be 'woman', and why is it such a protected status that we are so afraid of someone self identifying as such?

And a final genuine question - are rad fems as bothered by trans men sharing men's spaces?

pegsworth thanks for engaging calmly. I used to feel how you do. But then I read what women were saying who have very different experiences with men. For example women who have experienced domestic abuse. Stranger Rape. Severe sexual harassment. The fact that I have not experienced these things means that my opinion on whether someone should be OK with sleeping in a room with a stranger male is rather irrelevant. The fact that a large proportion of women have experienced male violence means that in any given group of 4 women, likely one of them has. In which case, her experience is the one that matters when deciding if a male body is OK in a private space not mine.

Also there is just ya know, basic desire for privacy from the opposite sex. I don’t care about seeing female friends naked, or even stranger women but I would be horribly embarrassed for a male person to do so. I don’t agree with the response “well no one should ever be naked!” I think women only communal spaces where we are nude (optional of course) help to normalize body shame which is a massive problem for women. I would not be comfortable with a penis there.

the likelihood of a trans woman attacking you is no higher than that of a bio woman attacking you.
Do you have the source for this statement? Given that the number of trans women is far far lower than the number of women, I would expect the number of trans women attacking women is extremely low compared to woman on woman assaults.

FWR thank you for that explanation. So I suppose I started where you are now, and after much exploration went the other way. I came to the conclusion that a lot of my initial discomfort was from the status quo being what it is, and my never having had to think about this issue before.

I understand a bit more why people might feel uncomfortable about sharing a bedroom. (I would prefer not sharing with a stranger, full stop!) but even bathrooms with cubicles? Changing rooms with cubicles? I've read feminist threads here where people are incandescent with rage that M&S now offers unisex changing rooms.

A challenge to the 'male gaze' point - what about lesbians? Are we uncomfortable that they might look inappropriately at bio women too?

No woman should suddenly be confronted with having to share a room with an unknown adult male.

Yes. End of.

"soontobe I suppose my respect for the trans woman's right to self identify trumps that for the bio woman's right to say no. "

WOW!!!