do you think that a Labour's policy on trans issue played a part in their defeat

[Gone2far]

and the same for the LibDem's, obviously?
It played a large part in my vote, firstly because of the policies themselves, but also because they were symptomatic of Labour/LibDem's attitude to Women, but I don't think many people felt that way, or had any awareness of the situation .
I was just wondering what other's thought.

Sadly no.

The majority of younger labour voting people I talk to

It’s not just about the labour voting ones though, the defeat was due to the ones that didn’t vote labour.

My eldest is 19 and at uni. He’s antiwoke (4 chan, edgelord style). Considers himself a libertarian. Planned to vote Tory last week but forgot to register at his student home and didn’t think to organise a proxy/postal vote for actual home 😂

The vast majority of his non uni mates (age 18-25) are the same. The young green/lib dem/labour loudmouths think that all they have to do is wait for the older generation to die. They don’t realise they have Tories in their own generation, because they live in an echo chamber.

Just have to add my voice in agreement to this

If Labour had actually produced coherent, socialist understanding of structural inequalities, I would have supported them. I think a lot of people who initially supported Corbyn thought we were seeing a return of a socialist approach to politics. In stead we got wokeism and a completely rejection of coherent class-based politics, and not a smidgen of understanding of ‘gender’ as an axis of oppression.

I voted Labour but for the first time since I was able to vote, I didn't want to.

DuMonde exactly.

The loud look at woke me types who are insisting my two vote Labour at uni would be surprised and not a little fucked off to hear that apparently neither did.

I will try and zip my gob up over Christmas and see if the trans discussion happens without previously attendant door slamming, tears and accusations of literal murder.

DH suggests I continue on the wagon. He seems to think gin Might Not Help.

The freak

My DS 19 loves Corbyn, Owen Jones, Steven Crowder and he's asked for a Jordan Peterson book for Xmas. He also likes to say "facts don't care about your feelings" which I believe is Ben Shapiro. So, there's quite a mix of Internet voices there. A good friend of his from school was pan sexual but is now non-binary and has changed their name. There are also several people on his course who are trans and non binary. He gets a very loud response in the house whenever he mentions Jones!

Yes. I think along with the lorry load of other issues that made it impossible for people to vote for them. I voted Labour through gritted teeth thinking that we would have to sort it out afterwards IF they got in. I’m a life long labour supporter and I was very close to turning because of this issue. I can’t think of any of them that covered themselves in glory. I don’t know who I would back from labour either to be Labour they all seem like an even worse joke now they have been held up to the light.

The vast majority of his non uni mates (age 18-25) are the same. The young green/lib dem/labour loudmouths think that all they have to do is wait for the older generation to die. They don’t realise they have Tories in their own generation, because they live in an echo chamber.

”He who is not a républicain at twenty compels one to doubt the generosity of his heart; but he who, after thirty, persists, compels one to doubt the soundness of his mind”

The young also grow up.

I was thinking this and also think it is something that won't be picked up on by the pundits as women are generally quiet about their beliefs on gender ID in RL because they have to be for their safety.

But I do know one swing voter who voted Conservative in part because of this and was vocal about it.

I think the vast majority of people, unless they have direct contact with a young person (or are on mumsnet) have no idea about a woke agenda.

But what they dont like is arrogant middle class over educated adolescents lecturing them on what is best for them.

Momentum really doesn't seem to understand that their conviction and self righteousness dont make them good messengers.

But I suspect that even without an anti Corbyn media campaign, and some well respected Labour candidates trying to sell nationalisation, etc.. just wouldn't work. The country as a whole is now so far right (in terms of economics) that they just cant see it as something anyone sane does.

Even though a consumer led capitalist politics that we have had since the 80s has led to a widening gap in terms of rich and poor, crumbling services and so on, most people now believe private enterprise is the best option.

And I think this is why the idea of all our problems being because of Europe, ie those non British people taking anti British decisions, was why Brexit became so popular. Somehow easier to accept that it is "others" doing it to us than our ownpolitical elite selling us out. Look at the shambles of Tory policy in terms of privitising services, and yet they are still more trusted with the economy.

Nobodies want to hear long winded explanations about how more state control might benefit us all.

They just want to hear a media friendly personality mouth platitudes about being great again, taking back control, and other unverifiable statments.

A decade or more of austerity doesn't seem to have dented the Tory reputation for most people. Or they just dont care about truth anymore, because for some nothing every changes, so why not go for the one with most upbeat, unlikely promises?

The vast majority of his non uni mates (age 18-25) are the same. The young green/lib dem/labour loudmouths think that all they have to do is wait for the older generation to die. They don’t realise they have Tories in their own generation, because they live in an echo chamber.

My DS (18) voted for the first time, he didn't vote for any of the main parties. Anecdotally his friends, some at uni and some not, didn't vote Labour with a couple that I know of voting Tory.

My DD (26) got her act together and finally registered where she lives for this election. She read the manifestos and decided to vote Tory, I was somewhat surprised because neither myself or DH have been conservative voters now or in the past. However I nagged at her to become politically engaged and that's what she did and I don't really ask any more than that. It's her choice and I'm just glad she engaged with the process.

I think the idea that all young people are a hive mind of socialism is a bit naive. It's perhaps a tendency in more metropolitan areas but probably less so outside of big cities.

Also the idea that older people will die off and all types of conservatism will cease to be is a bit laughable. It doesn't reflect that people change over the decades of life. After all many of the much maligned boomers will have once upon a time been the free love/hippy generation.

I was speaking to a (now ex) Labour MP early last week. He said that the trans debate never came up on the doorstep but that it was the most difficult issue he had ever had to deal with in the local party.

I suspect that there would be some seats where the number of disaffected women made a difference to the vote. Perhaps more importantly, where it may have contributed to the defeat, is that we have been the mainstay of canvassing, organising, fundraising. Certainly at said local HQ there were few older women but many, almost uncontrollable, young people tearing around being all enthusiastic, completely unaware that YoJC may not win.

Yes #LabourLosingWomen

I agree. And I don't know where posters live that they seem to come across trans people in the numbers talked about on here.

1. Cambridge
2. Any large software company.

Self ID is the symptom rather than the cause. It's a sign of parties being captured by niche interest groups and being so disconnected from their core voters that they can't see how a) irrelevant it is to most people and b) how badly it will play with those who hear about it.

And c) willing to risk the votes of those they take for granted

Self-id is just part of the puzzle, I resent the implication that it isn't important. It's a smaller part than Brexit but maybe a bigger part than student loans. We may never know.
It doesn't have to have been the deciding factor to be important.

Off-topic slightly but it's annoying the sweeping generalisations are being made yet again based on the results.
The red wall may have fallen but so have a bunch of New Towns, for example.

In the same way journalists went to Boston and pointed out it had the highest percentage increase of immigration after the Brexit vote, we will see total focus on shopkeepers in Blyth Valley instead of a proper assessment of all the contributing factors.
This election was a perfect storm for Labour and relying on over-simplified explanations won't sort the problem.

Momentum harmed the Party, and expelling women harmed the Party, and refusing to engage the Brexit debate harmed the Party, lack of a coherent strategy beyond self admiration harmed the Party, but more than anything it was the contempt for their constituency as expressed by leadership that harmed the Party.
It always does.

I think given the essential donkey work women do within political parties at local level, it would have been a obviously stupid thing for any political party to suddenly pretend they didn't know what a woman was.

Three years ago i was a true believer, canvassing most weeks, attending meetings, taking on casework, telling at polling stations, 'knocking up' on election day, etc etc. My ex-party rapidly went under the thumb of a couple of notable mra/tra/map activists and -strangely - i stopped doing anything for said party and ended my membership.

I'm just one woman but there are thousands like me. It's not so much my vote my ex-party lost as the work i used to do bringing in the votes of other people. Fuck that, quite frankly.

RuffelCrow that is really interesting. I am starting to see it within Labour and the left over its handling of sexual harassment and rape apology. Women have gone quietly, and the men aren't really sure why, but they have gone. Still voting along the same lines but have withdrawn their unpaid work.

Then you hear labour activists calling for social justice. What does that even mean ?

More power to affluent white men. However they identify...

'Women have gone quietly, and the men aren't really sure why, but they have gone.'

Have the men even noticed that the women have gone?
I am frequently amazed by how much work women can do without anyone ever noticing.

Tbh I think the number of people who care is very small. And if they think the conservatives give a toss they are idiots. It's going to be bad for everyone - women, trans people, ethnic minorities, working people, we're all up shit creek now, and do you think the overlords are going to care who gets to call themselves a woman?

I agree. And I don't know where posters live that they seem to come across trans people in the numbers talked about on here

Brighton.

I care who gets to call themselves a woman. I care.

And I am sooooooooo over this influx of people telling us it doesn't matter. It matters to me and to 99.9% of people on this board and to everyone I have ever spoken to on this matter IRL bar one person who is the biggest people pleaser doormat I know.

And actually it clearly matters to the people popping up to frantically tell us it doesn't every ten minutes otherwise presumably they'd be doing something else.

I care.

Movements may begin with a lone voice and I feel so much pride that women and girls are adding their voices daily. Many women have been fighting this for years in a hostile environment, where even speaking out can lose you your job and safety (see Maya Forster)

This civil rights movement is growing and we won't be told we can't centre ourselves, or be silenced or gaslit that this is a few mean, middle aged women on Mumsnet.

We see in today's news the challenge on Oxford Council by brave women and a 13 year old girl.

#WomenUnited

I agree. And I don't know where posters live that they seem to come across trans people in the numbers talked about on here.

A city.
A school,
A women's IT group.

The same people who tell us no-one cares are often here telling us about this 'oppressed, vulnerable and suicidal' minority. So clearly they care too - just in a different way.

It had an impact on mine. As a lifelong Labour voter, I spoilt my ballot and wrote out my reasons across it. I cannot vote for a party who plans to erode my rights.