do you think that a Labour's policy on trans issue played a part in their defeat

[Gone2far]

and the same for the LibDem's, obviously?
It played a large part in my vote, firstly because of the policies themselves, but also because they were symptomatic of Labour/LibDem's attitude to Women, but I don't think many people felt that way, or had any awareness of the situation .
I was just wondering what other's thought.

It’s part of the picture of a rejection of wokeness. Here is an extract from a letter from a retired teacher from Bolsover that is published in the Guardian today:

It is the least worst option for the country, at least I hope so. My instincts are Labour but the present party is unrecognisable. Its descent into far-left identity politics has left the working class disenfranchised. It is no surprise that so many of us held our noses and voted Conservative.

This, incidentally, is the reason why the Democrats will lose to Trump next year. When Elizabeth Warren put her pronouns in her Twitter bio, I knew she was toast.

I think the kind of person who would otherwise find the lib dems attractive are those who believe the lib dems are a centre left party. This is not what the lib dems are. It cant be said often enough. Liberalism is not the centre it's a different beast.

Yes, it was my no 1 reason not to vote Labour, lib dem or green

Certainly in Rother Valley where the Conservatives took the seat from Labour. The Labour candidate was Sophie Wilson, who .... well, let's just say she was a supporter of trans rights over the rights of women and children.

That's me putting it politely.

No, but the self ID issue is reflective of how top-down a lot of politics has become. People are fed up with being lectured at by politicians who assume they are idiots because they disagree with an ideology. Momentum's brand of authoritarianism is just a stronger variety of "we know best" that has irked people about the London bubble for years.

Look at Alan Johnson's interview - he got it and understood why the North and working classes were pissed off. If Labour had people like him running the party instead this would not have happened because voters would have been listened to in the first place.

This, incidentally, is the reason why the Democrats will lose to Trump next year. When Elizabeth Warren put her pronouns in her Twitter bio, I knew she was toast.

GC, agree 100 per cent. I know people who voted Obama in 2008 and Trump 2016. The liberal media doesn’t have a clue people like that exist!

I think it made some difference, but not as much as it did to the LibDems. It was one of my considerations, but not the main one. Whereas for the LibDems Ms Swinson absolutely enraged me, so it was a very swift chop for her.

If I ever got tempted to get Lib Dem I think about my daughter's massive student loan and how I felt like my vote for them had inadvertently been a vote for the Conservative party.

@ArnoldWhatshisknickers absolutely. As a working class, disabled woman, I'm sick of hearing about privilege from privately educated Oxbridge types who would faint in fear if they went near my hometown.

Really tiresome.

I am super lefty but the hectoring is just too much.

I also find the language of politics very exclusive now - people are waiting for you to trip up on some minor bit of terminology so they can tell you to "educate yourself". Puts me off engaging and I'm pretty politically aware. I can't imagine how it feels for people who just swing by occasionally and hear that they're privileged so shut up within 5 minutes from people who are far better off than them but have learnt how to claim oppression top trumps.

I was in a safe Conservative seat and my choice was between spoiling by ballot or voting Labour. There was no way I was voting Lib Dem based in this issue and they would otherwise have been my party of choice. I think it will have been a factor in Jo Swinson losing her seat.

I saw Alan Johnson’s interview and I really miss politicians of his stature and belief - he was so angry about what the Labour Party had become. He is right we need grown ups not those playing at student politics.

Alan Johnsons barely contained fury with the chair of momentum on election night was amazing to watch. 'The working class has always been a disappointment to you. They never did what you wanted'

from people who are far better off than them but have learnt how to claim oppression top trumps

I think that’s at the epicenter of this. Arnold also made this point about the dominance of PPE Oxbridge graduates who require smelling salts if they come into contact with Northern voters and whose visceral disdain for those they claim to represent is palpable. If the analysis of Labour’s obliteration in the North doesn’t focus on where Labour went wrong instead of berating voters for being stupid turkeys? Terminal decline awaits...

Certainly in Rother Valley where the Conservatives took the seat from Labour. The Labour candidate was Sophie Wilson, who .... well, let's just say she was a supporter of trans rights over the rights of women and children.

That person is a case study in everything that is wrong with the present Labour Party. Putting an immature, privileged, insult-throwing dimwit up for election who tells abused, gang-raped women and girls that sex is empowering, that they have cis privilege, and that they are bigots for not wanting males in women’s refuges is so grotesque that it is almost as if Labour deliberately set out to abuse the electorate. She’s a disgrace, of course, but the fact that Labour decided this was their best candidate for this seat tells you everything you need to know about the contempt they have for local people.

I was alarmed by their blind acceptance of the neuro-diversity movement, which is similiarnn

@GCAcademic - thank you for articulating what I wanted to say.

No. Not in the slightest. Nor for Lib Dem losses. Nor SNP gains.

I didn't hear Labour party candidates being quizzed on the issue like Lid Dem ones were, but then maybe I wasn't listening, because I'd never vote Labour? As a LD member though hearing Jo Swinson and Luciana Berger trotting out the line 'TWAW' and all the shit they both said made me put a big, fat X in the box of the party that looks most likely to kick Self ID into the long grass. I will not support any party that supports Self ID. Having said that, when I've talked about it to other people, inc. my DH, they've looked a bit bemused and if I didn't read the MN Feminist board regularly I definitely wouldn't have been so educated on the issue.

Turners column I linked upthread mentions that Sophie Wilson's answer on how to help flood victims (people with sewage in their kitchens, not theoretical victims) was 'First we must address climate change'.

I'm sick of hearing about privilege from privately educated Oxbridge types who would faint in fear if they went near my hometown.

They just don't see that other people have different priorities.

I am reminded of the time I got into an argument with a Guardian writer about the enormo-Tesco in my town. He actually wrote a column in a national newspaper about how aesthetically unappealing it is and how damaging to the local shops.

In reality it was built on the site of a former shipyard that had lain derelict for 20 years and the local shops were shit rip off merchants that preyed on a largely captive population (less than 50% of household here have access to a car). It has provided employment, improved our shopping choices and helped slow depopulation (this is the fastest depopulating local authority on the UK mainland, we've lost over a quarter of our population since the 80s).

But it spoils the view for London based Guardian writers on their holidays so fuck what the locals think.

Posted too soon.

Labour gave a lot of time and space to self diagnosed autistics who claim to be better able to speak for severely disabled children than the children's parents. The neurodiversity manifesto was watered down in the end, but I don't trust Labour not to take the side of the most woke bully on Twitter.

There is considerable overlap with self-ID women crowd and the self diagnosed autistic crowd.

Certainly in Rother Valley where the Conservatives took the seat from Labour. The Labour candidate was Sophie Wilson, who .... well, let's just say she was a supporter of trans rights over the rights of women and children.

Also one of the candidates who used and defended the abusive term ‘terf’ according to Fair Play for Women’s research. fairplayforwomen.com/pcc/

No

@ArnoldWhatshisknickers

Exactly. I could have written that post myself.

I think it was low on the list of reasons people didnt vote labour.
I think some liberals woll have not voted liberal because of it. but a small minority