do you think that a Labour's policy on trans issue played a part in their defeat

[Gone2far]

and the same for the LibDem's, obviously?
It played a large part in my vote, firstly because of the policies themselves, but also because they were symptomatic of Labour/LibDem's attitude to Women, but I don't think many people felt that way, or had any awareness of the situation .
I was just wondering what other's thought.

Put it another way: it wasn't a vote winner, was it?

I think it did for the lib dems and a minority of Labour. Labour's wealthy southern voters thought the spending commitments were OTT and detrimental to the young who will have to pay for it and the northern labour areas were angry at Labour not sorting out Brexit as they promised in the 2017 manifesto and caving in to the Remain voting south. Several people I know didn't vote SGP because of their aggressive TWAW stance.

it is almost as if Labour deliberately set out to abuse the electorate

You know I've been wondering for the last few weeks if labour set out to lose. They have been so dire. Barely stopping short of calling people stupid, hectoring, bullying, unable to see a bigger picture. Saying stupid shit about house building, the NHS and other things. And the countrywide internet made me piss myself laughing. As if any self respecting adult would use a government owned and run internet.

It’s been said many times here but the lack of class analysis in “woke” is a huge problem because social class permeates everything in this country.
Woke types romanticise “the working classes” but it come across as lip service.

Not in the slightest. 100% down to the leader

As if any self respecting adult would use a government owned and run internet.

Given that I think of Corbyn as a bit of a tankie, like fuck would I use an internet he was in charge of! And I'm a leftist, so think how keen everyone to the right of me would be.

Had to Google tankie, never heard of it. Learn summat new everyday.
But yeah that had the biggest laughs out of me. Seriously government internet, who can see anything wrong with that.🤷‍♀️

Yeah government internet - until you post something incorrect on social media then YOU ARE CANCELLED

That's what dh said! Momentum controlled internet

Do you think that a Labour's policy on trans issue played a part in their defeat

No, not really...it had only just broken through & become a topic for discussion a week or two before the election...too late for the uninitiated and uninformed to even really have time to consider it or its implications, let alone consider it critical in their voting intentions.

I reckon people thought "what on earth is this about" and"why is it so important?".

The trans issues are just a symptom, a very telling one, of what lost Labour the election- arrogance, disconnect from ordinary people & ordinary concerns, real hatred & vitriol directed at anyone who disagreed with them, rampant identity politics & queer theory, focus on the metropolitan, young, university educated high earners, obvious contempt for working classes.

My family have always been Labour (right back to great grandparents) & frankly until last week would all have voted for a llama with a red rosette. What changed was a perception that this was now the party of weird extremism and hatred and discord. Not a vote winner. The trans issue was a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself.

Agreed, Knewmee. Now will this disaster bring them to their senses, or is ideology going to be more important than ever getting back into office?

I agree that the trans issue is just one aspect of a bigger problem on the left. Wokeism doesn't represent the interests of the working class - it thinks it does, but in reality most working class people give zero fucks about most woke issues. In my entire extended family (Scottish, working class background, a handful of university educated eople and people who've made some money but only 2 people who've ended up in what you might call the professional classes) there's a grand total of one woke person, and that's really just because he's gay and wants to show solidarity. Everyone else ranges from indifferent to actively hostile to most of the woke issues and talking points. What's more, as the media pushes the woke stuff more I'm seeing more of them shift from indifferent to hostile as a result of seeing that stuff prioritised over the issues actually impacting their communities. The hectoring isn't working, it's creating a backlash, but if your entire life is lived on social media and in a bubble where all your friends are as woke as you are you won't know that until it's too late and you find yourself going "but #voteLabour was trending and Oh Jeremy Corbyn was all over the place, how could we have lost?"

That's what dh said! Momentum controlled internet

That was my gut reaction. I don't like the idea of any government controlling the internet.

Or more accurately controlling access to the internet.

The trans issues are just a symptom, a very telling one, of what lost Labour the election- arrogance, disconnect from ordinary people & ordinary concerns, real hatred & vitriol directed at anyone who disagreed with them, rampant identity politics & queer theory, focus on the metropolitan, young, university educated high earners, obvious contempt for working classes

All of this.
What’s worse is wokeism seems to be contagious - I know a lovely chap, local councillor, inner city secondary school teacher, mixed race marriage - when he was asked what a woman is, on the doorstep, replied ‘it’s complicated’ 🤦‍♀️

I've just been saying elsewhere that the Red Tory/Blue Labour section of the electorate now appears to hold the balance of power in England at least, and probably Wales too. This section of the electorate is anti-Woke but will support good public services. If London Labourites don't make an offer to this portion of the electorate, they will never win a majority.

Yeah dumonde kitten knewmee tei

That’s really what it’s about

First comment I saw on Friday morning was fuck corbyn

We ar3 just ordinary people who feel like the Labour Party doesn5 care for us

And when we get called working class it makes us feel like we are lesser people
No one I know calls themselves working class. We are just people
Then you hear labour activists calling for social justice. What does that even mean ?

So out of touch with ordinary people labour are

Grr

Then you hear labour activists calling for social justice. What does that even mean ?

A very good question.

It's just a soundbite, a 'virtue signal', it isn't an actual policy at all.

People want to hear sensible, workable policies that they can envisage having a real life positive impact on their lives.

Yes, it was one of my main reasons for not voting green, labour or LibDem.

Women’s rights are human rights. Human rights are important to me.

I would cynically assume that social justice means policies that look kind and woke on paper but don't cost any money or involve much effort.

Your average woke enthusiast would rather die than live next to anyone properly working class.

Free internet but you still have to pay a £150 a year license to watch your own TV 🤦‍♀️ Most of the policies they had were an expensive, incoherent mess.

YES!

I tried explaining my reasons for not voting labour and LibDeM do a staunch Corbinista. His response was ‘but men get raped too...’ and tried to throw a hundred straw man arguments at me

"At the rate women do? Maybe if they're in a poorly run prison"

When men are raped it’s by other men (following the UK’s legal definition it has to involve penetration with a penis) so men are still the problem and shoving some rapists in with women (who are on average smaller and weaker than males) isn’t going to keep all other men safe from rape so wtf is he even on about?