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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

do you think that a Labour's policy on trans issue played a part in their defeat

223 replies

Gone2far · 14/12/2019 08:06

and the same for the LibDem's, obviously?
It played a large part in my vote, firstly because of the policies themselves, but also because they were symptomatic of Labour/LibDem's attitude to Women, but I don't think many people felt that way, or had any awareness of the situation .
I was just wondering what other's thought.

OP posts:
SallyWD · 15/12/2019 15:28

Really? It's only on Mumsnet that I've seen such concern about trans people. Most people I know aren't that interested/concerned about it. They just think live and let live. Not something they think about much.

GCAcademic · 15/12/2019 15:37

They just think live and let live.

Yeah, we don't like to do that on here. We're spiteful bitches that get a kick out of being mean for the sake of it, even if it gets us threatened and doxxed.

EndoplasmicReticulum · 15/12/2019 15:39

"The trans issues are just a symptom, a very telling one, of what lost Labour the election- arrogance, disconnect from ordinary people & ordinary concerns, real hatred & vitriol directed at anyone who disagreed with them, rampant identity politics & queer theory, focus on the metropolitan, young, university educated high earners, obvious contempt for working classes"

Yes, this. Some of husband's family live in Rother Valley. We were talking about this yesterday. They said that Momentum sending a social justice warrior candidate and expecting that the people in the constituency would just vote for her based on the colour of her rosette, when she didn't represent them, was an arrogant mistake on Labour's part. Although they voted Labour anyway, they know plenty of people who swapped from red to blue for the first time, or who would usually have voted Labour but stayed at home instead.

PhilbricksCat · 15/12/2019 15:40

Really? It's only on Mumsnet that I've seen such concern about trans people. Most people I know aren't that interested/concerned about it.

I agree. And I don't know where posters live that they seem to come across trans people in the numbers talked about on here.

GCAcademic · 15/12/2019 15:56

Yes, this. Some of husband's family live in Rother Valley. We were talking about this yesterday. They said that Momentum sending a social justice warrior candidate and expecting that the people in the constituency would just vote for her based on the colour of her rosette, when she didn't represent them, was an arrogant mistake on Labour's part. Although they voted Labour anyway, they know plenty of people who swapped from red to blue for the first time, or who would usually have voted Labour but stayed at home instead.

It's interesting to hear this from the horse's mouth as it were (no offence!). I live nowhere near there, but had clocked this candidate and was gobsmacked that Labour was so out-of-touch as to field her. It almost seemed like a grotesque insult to voters.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 15/12/2019 16:02

Her climate change comment was particularly foot in gob. Yes, extreme weather events are becoming more frequent as a result of that and therefore that's the long term solution, but saying you're going to work on climate change isn't much comfort to people who need help with clearing out their ruined furniture from their flooded house and also something to eat and a way to stay warm right now.

wacademia · 15/12/2019 16:05

It would be absolutely impossible for DS to say anything at his uni.

Not so. If his department has a suggestions box, he can say something using that. When he fills out NSS at the end of his programme, he can say something then.

noodlenosefraggle · 15/12/2019 16:49

I agree. And I don't know where posters live that they seem to come across trans people in the numbers talked about on here.
Isn't that part of the point though? There are a vanishingly small number of trans people, but 52% of the population are female. Eroding sex based rights is eroding the rights of 52% of the population.

DuMondeB · 15/12/2019 17:31

come across trans people in the numbers talked about on here.

Manchester.

HTH

Hohonoshow · 15/12/2019 17:50

I don't think it's trans people per se that folk are worried about is it - it's men, and they make up a shedload of the population.

RuffleCrow · 15/12/2019 17:56

Yes in part and yes. even for those who didn't start with a gc position themselves it made Corbyn and Swinson both look illogical and irrational - and very easily led rather than being leaders themselves.

If someone tells you with a straight face that they think human beings can change sex, they instantly lose all credibility.

AnnaMagnani · 15/12/2019 18:07

Come across trans people:

Rural Britain!

Checkouts at the supermarket.
A colleague - who was bloody amazing BTW and would be embarrassed by all the TRA nonsense.
And depressingly - working in healthcare. I deal with families who are in crisis. Used to be you would see a child who had become anorexic as part of the fallout. Now I am starting to see families with a trans child instead. No-one is acknowledging that there is a link but it's as clear as day to observers. My work is nothing to do with the children so all I can do is note it as a phenomenon. But we all saw it in my workplace and commented on it.

Kit19 · 15/12/2019 18:21

Exactly @RuffleCrow anyone outside their woke bubble knows exactly what a woman is. Any Politician flailing about trying to pretend they don’t know exactly what a woman is looks either deranged or idiotic

PhilbricksCat · 15/12/2019 18:23

come across trans people in the numbers talked about on here

Manchester

HTH

I live in a major city and am in London every couple of months. Either trans people are passing remarkably well or there really aren't the hordes of trans people invading changing rooms and toilets which FWR posters experience.

theflushedzebra · 15/12/2019 18:27

It's the loophole being exposed, Philbrick - that's what we are trying to raise awareness of - the loophole that allows any male to self-ID into any women's space - it's not all about toilets. It's the complete dismantling of women's rights, the definition of woman, and children's safeguarding.

I live in a v conservative area, but there is a transgirl at my DD's school, who uses the girl's changing rooms - because the school is following Mermaid's advice. No thought to all the other girls at all.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 15/12/2019 18:28

'come across trans people in the numbers talked about on here.'

But this is part of the issue - young people transition in clusters, so eg there are none at my kids' school whereas one of my nephews had basically his whole friendship group transition. And yet we are supposed to believe it isn't due to social contagion.

Kit19 · 15/12/2019 18:38

“Acceptance with question” & “use whatever changing room/toilet you feel most aligns with your gender” means that anyone can just walk into a space for the opposite sex and if anyone complains they can just say that they identify as a man/woman. There’s no requirement to pass

See for example Danielle muscato whose pronouns are she/her

do you think that a Labour's policy on trans issue played a part in their defeat
DuMondeB · 15/12/2019 18:43

there really aren't the hordes of trans people invading changing rooms and toilets which FWR posters experience.

All it takes is a kid in a secondary school with a ROGD cluster and you could easily know 20 trans people you see on a daily basis.

Open your eyes, just because you don’t see it on your commute to London, doesn’t mean it’s not happening.

IM0GEN · 15/12/2019 18:53

There don’t need to be hoards. A friends son is a high profile TRA who has caused fear and distress to lesbians at their university and other institutions.

One person in a position of power can victimise many others.

One trans person assaulted children in supermarket toilets near where I live. Now many children and their parents are fearful every time they need to use a public loo.

It doesn’t need to be hundreds. Individual lives matter, these women and children are not just collateral damage in the greater cause of mens sexual rights.

AnnaMagnani · 15/12/2019 19:09

Oh and I forgot - the non-binary couple who were on a tour with us on holiday. OK, one of them might have been trans, not non-binary or whatever.

But they were v obviously a man and a woman who in normal times would have been in a straight relationship. Except they had the quiffs, purple hair, ear stretchers etc so we all knew how individual they were Hmm

CherryBowl · 15/12/2019 19:20

Sadly no.

The majority of younger labour voting people I talk to are entirely accepting of the pro-trans ideology they’re fed by the likes of twitter. So they get a bit misty eyed about poor beknighted trans people and worry saying anything AT ALL will cause a great spike in suicides.

Older ones just say ‘you WHAT’ and look askance at the idea of a grown man choosing to dress like a dolly bird a couple of days a week, and even more headshaky when I say he works in the city. And has kids.

I listened to that car crash women’s hour when we were told it was in fact TW who needed protecting not actual ones. Most people I spoke to afterwards had no idea what it was all about.

Still, hopefully now the GE is done, there’ll be more chance of starting these conversations and letting people know what’s in store if they don’t start thinking about whether they support self ID or not.

ShesDressedInBlackAgain · 15/12/2019 19:31

This is just the latest incarnation of #nodebate. You silly women. Worrying your silly heads. Now go our and vote like good little girls and we'll say no more about it.

ThePurported · 15/12/2019 19:37

But this is part of the issue - young people transition in clusters, so eg there are none at my kids' school whereas one of my nephews had basically his whole friendship group transition. And yet we are supposed to believe it isn't due to social contagion.

And why is it that trans activists do not want any research into this phenomenon? Apparently girls wanting double mastectomies is just a sign of more open-minded times Hmm

Transgenderism as an ideology is far from 'live and let live'. I think a lot of people have this idea that trans means letting boys wear dresses etc., when in reality it means 'of course this boy can wear a dress, but it might be a sign that he is a girl and will need drugs and surgery'.
In this context, 'live and let live' is not a benign approach.

MarshaBradyo · 15/12/2019 19:37

No I don’t

PurpleHoodie · 15/12/2019 19:39

I cant remember which Mnetter it was - or which thread - but she said a man at her Polling Station was absolutely crazy with rage shouting about women being given the vote. Another man who worked there stayed with her for her safety until rage-man left.

It's either "no votes for women" rage rage! or "women vote NO NOT LIKE THAT BE NICE AND COMPLIANT" rage rage!