do you think that a Labour's policy on trans issue played a part in their defeat

[Gone2far]

and the same for the LibDem's, obviously?
It played a large part in my vote, firstly because of the policies themselves, but also because they were symptomatic of Labour/LibDem's attitude to Women, but I don't think many people felt that way, or had any awareness of the situation .
I was just wondering what other's thought.

No, I don’t think it really did.

To be fair, all mention of self ID was scrubbed from the manifesto for this election, so the SNP clearly took note that it was a vote loser and acted accordingly.

I wondered about this. It is obviously a devolved issue as the Scottish Parliament is planning to bring in its own legislation. Does that mean that they don’t get a say in it in Westminster? As I understand it, they don’t vote on issues that pertain only to England and Wales.

No. It really didn't. The trans 'issue' is very low on most people's lists and when it does appear not all of those people agree with the prevailing opinion on this board.

It was definitely a consideration for me. I wanted another referendum which would have been possible under a Labour/lib dem/snp coalition, but that would also have opened the door to self ID. I voted Labour but it was the only reason I wavered and considered voting Tory.

To be fair, the Progress faction is just as in thrall to the TRAs - Heather Peto is a Progress candidate.

My secret WhatsApp group of local Labour terves has women in it from all parts of the broad church, women who I have opposed on various issues, so I think it’s safe to assume that all parts of the broad church also have TRAs

The young Labour activists, whether actual Momentum members or not, are definitely the loud mouths telling people with dissenting opinions to fuck off to the Tories though. A bit of age teaches one that such tactics do not work!

*As part of 'woke' ideology more generally, yes.

It isn't just the trans horseshit, it's the endlessly scolding people about their 'privilege' when the scolder invariably has more real privilege (or money as it's commonly known) than the scoldee.

It's endlessly wanking on about 'inclusion' while failing to include the working class. It's telling people they are racist when they criticise a religion. It's patting themselves on the back for being 'diverse' when they have an Oxbridge educated black man, Oxbridge educated muslim women, Oxbridge educated gay man, Oxbridge educated disabled women, Oxbridge educated XY trans person on a committee.

People aren't stupid. They know all this box ticking and language policing isn't doing shit to improve the lives of the actual vulnerable and their sick of it.*

A million times THIS. Ive been a labour supporter all my life but frankly, this is just embarrassing. Ive seen so much hatred and vitriol spewed by the left towards others and its JUST. NOT. WORKING. If it was- we'd have a labour government now. Constantly scolding and insulting people is not going to sway them to your side. Instead ,they'll simply say "well fck you then!" and vote for the opposition. We need a change. This strategy isn't working and the sooner they realise this, the more likely we are to get rid of the Tories.

Not in the northern and Midlands mining towns I was canvassing in. Most people on the doorsteps were concerned about Brexit and Jeremy Corbyn. Also comments about not being trusted with the economy. I honestly haven't seen it mentioned outside specific women's groups.

I think may depend on the area. But no, in the northern red wall, it was about Brexit.

This issue has not been on the radar of most people. None of my middle aged close friends have any idea whatsoever (I'm working on them gently). I had no idea until I Googled recently. DS is in the thick of it at uni and has had pronoun classes and the like. He said "everybody goes along with it but we don't believe it".

😊

*There was much discussion on here that the very pro self ID policy of the SNP (which the Holyrood MSPs can implement) would lose them votes. The Wings Over Scotland site made a huge issue that this was a vote loser for the SNP, and Wings was mentioned with approval by posters on FWR.

Well that loss of votes didn't come to pass did it?*

The SNP has MPs like Joanne Cherry (who did very well), who are pushing for this to be properly debated and to consider women's rights. There is nobody like that in Labour or the Lib Dems.

DS is in the thick of it at uni and has had pronoun classes and the like. He said "everybody goes along with it but we don't believe it".

Students need to start complaining about this. There are constantly asked to complete surveys. What they need to say, in relation to all this trans-privilege activity is that it is "exclusionary", as it rides roughshod over other people's sex, religion, beliefs, etc. and (because those things are protected characteristics) it is also discriminatory.

There must have been some yes

It's endlessly wanking on about 'inclusion' while failing to include the working class. It's telling people they are racist when they criticise a religion. It's patting themselves on the back for being 'diverse' when they have an Oxbridge educated black man, Oxbridge educated muslim women, Oxbridge educated gay man, Oxbridge educated disabled women, Oxbridge educated XY trans person on a committee.
^^ This

It would be absolutely impossible for DS to say anything at his uni.

I don’t think MN is at all representative of the electorate, even in terms of middle aged women.

The prevailing view is that Brexiteers are thick. We have seen time again where sneering gets you

Yes Arnold

I don’t think that many people know about Self ID but as part of a bigger picture this was a rejection of woke.
Labour simply forgot about their traditional voters. In fact I saw on Twitter criticism of the word “traditional voters” because apparently “we all know what traditional means”. (Ie it means white and white is bad).

Is it time for Labour to split? I don’t know who Momentum want to represent but for me they represent the worst of Britain at present. Liberal luvvies at best

As part of 'woke' ideology more generally, yes

That's what I think. A rejection of Wokeism, bourgeois cancel culture and all the rest of it was one important plank of the defeat. Genderism is part and parcel of that.

As a standalone issue, genderism wasn't huge.

Momentum has nothing to do with liberal luvvies. They don't think they're left wing enough.

For me labours ambivalence over Brexit and expulsion of more moderate members also...but self ID clinched spoiled vote.

It's a symptom of a level of immaturity, that they can't hold nuanced positions and are a bit too out-if-touch student politics for most people. They appeared to not care that much about Brexit or antisemitism but go to the effort to add pronouns to things, that looks like someone whose priorities are all wrong.

As part of 'woke' ideology more generally, yes

In fact, all of Arnold's post applies to me too.

The moment when Corbyn announced his pronouns was the moment when I made up my mind that I would never vote for him, no matter what was in the manifesto about self-ID and even if he were to kick Dawn Butler off the front bench.

Labour needs to reinvent itself as I agree with many on here that it wasn’t the trans issue in itself that alienated many voters it was the whole Momentum courting of the young, Goldsmiths, ‘suck dick for socialism’, Corbynista fan-worshiping base that totally drowned out their more solid, working class constituency. Brexit was the main driver in their decimation yes, but these other failings played a huge part too.

No. I'm sure most people hadn't a clue about it or were not interested. Ditto with Jo Swinson