Page 3 | Webchat with John McDonnell Friday 6 December 12:00

Needmoresleep · 06/12/2019 13:16

So Labour feel we need a proper and considered discussion, but Labour have already made up their minds.....

Wasnt there a consultation? Didnt lots and lots of women express their concerns? What sort of considered discussion are Labour proposing?

WTAF

ThePurported · 06/12/2019 13:17

After Jo Swinson & co's car crash performances in the media in recent days, Labour could have scored some credibility points by showing that they still live in the real world, but no. Self id followed by 'debate' on EA, presumably to introduce some extra protections for certain male cohorts now that women have become difficult.

BovaryX · 06/12/2019 13:22

Hey Buzz, it’s gone! But it was definitely there because I read it. Why would it be deleted?

LangCleg · 06/12/2019 13:22

Lang, I saw that. I can understand why you’re very angry.

This is what really gets me. The Labour Party has got a materialist socialist leadership - to my socialist mind, hooray! Finally! - but as soon as women come into the policy picture, materialism doesn't matter and the party adopts a bourgeois liberal agenda without a second fucking thought.

I can't even begin to describe how angry I am.

Floisme · 06/12/2019 13:23

All I wanted him to do was to state that single-sex exemptions would not be up for debate.
It really is pathetic how little I was asking for.

I don't know what to do now. If I lived in a safe seat (for any party) I could at least spoil my vote but here that would mean I'd risk helping a Lib Dem get in.

OvaHere · 06/12/2019 13:25

This is what really gets me. The Labour Party has got a materialist socialist leadership - to my socialist mind, hooray! Finally! - but as soon as women come into the policy picture, materialism doesn't matter and the party adopts a bourgeois liberal agenda without a second fucking thought.

This a thousand times.

BovaryX · 06/12/2019 13:29

This is what really gets me. The Labour Party has got a materialist socialist leadership - to my socialist mind, hooray! Finally! - but as soon as women come into the policy picture, materialism doesn't matter

I think John McDonnell is a hard nosed politico and his calculation is that Labour will get more votes by chucking GC women straight under the bus to placate this aggressive, shouty lobby group. Their influence is profoundly undemocratic and McDonnell’s position? It’s brosocialism

PenguindreamsofDraco · 06/12/2019 13:31

"Hence we aim to reform the law to include self-identification but this does open up a whole debate around the single sex-based exemptions that will be maintained under the Equalities Act. This has to be dealt with sensitively and people's views need to be respected."

Whose views? What views? My view that women's hard-fought for single sex spaces are not open to men however they identify don't seem to be worthy of any respect.

BovaryX · 06/12/2019 13:31

The malign reach and extent of this lobby group is really frightening.

PenguindreamsofDraco · 06/12/2019 13:32

doesn't seem to be worthy of any respect.

OvaHere · 06/12/2019 13:32

I don't live in a safe labour seat. I live in a constituency who only took the seat from the Tories by a few hundred votes in 2017. Hence I've been looking for any reason to stick with Labour. But how can I vote for any party that basically wants to rip up women's existing rights in law?

Uncompromisingwoman · 06/12/2019 13:46

I live in a seat that Labour are desperate to grab from an old school Tory. On the basis of this chat, Labour has nothing to offer to women - only the removal of both sex based rights and the safeguarding of children. Now they'll never get my vote back - I was starting to hope but evidently that was a waste of hope.

Ereshkigal · 06/12/2019 13:46

"After the revolution, love" seems to be the tack. He thinks he needs the Woke liberal LARPers (the revolution will be merchandised) more than he needs us. He can FTFOTTFSOF.

This. Did you see this article?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/26/on-the-doorstep-labour-faces-the-question-who-do-you-speak-for

TheWildPlaces · 06/12/2019 13:50

I was this close to giving them my vote. Not now.

BuzzShitbagBobbly · 06/12/2019 13:53

Hey Buzz, it’s gone! But it was definitely there because I read it. Why would it be deleted?

This is very odd. No deletion email (just checked) and not even the MNHQ replacement text to say it's deleted (even though no reason why it should have been). The whole entire post has been vanished.

Original poster

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly · 06/12/2019 13:55

fucking hell. just caught up on the webchat

uncompromising socialism, except when it comes to women's rights, and then we can compromise away, right John?

:Labour can fuck right off.

OP posts:

Gone2far · 06/12/2019 13:56

I just don't know how any Labour can ignore the GRC. and, almost say, in the same breath, that they intend to have consultation on the subject. Is there a missing link in their brains? All those hours spent by the people responding to the GRC. For nothing.
I have heard Labour friends clinging on to the hope against all the evidence, that Labour are pro-Women on this. It's so pathetic.

Campervan69 · 06/12/2019 13:58

No vote for labour or lib dems from me. Have sent off my vote and dh has done his. We have both usually voted one of the 2, this time we have voted otherwise. There's a first time for everything.

OvaHere · 06/12/2019 14:31

Reading twitter it seems like many TRAs are unhappy with what John wrote on here so it seems nobody is pleased but for opposite reasons.

We've read it as throwing women under a bus and they've read it as support for women.

TiredofthisBS · 06/12/2019 14:35

How on earth do you call what he said support for women? The mind boggles!

BovaryX · 06/12/2019 14:38

This is very odd. No deletion email (just checked) and not even the MNHQ replacement text to say it's deleted (even though no reason why it should have been). The whole entire post has been vanished

Buzz, that’s very bizarre. Why would it have been vaporized like that?

Ereshkigal · 06/12/2019 14:41

How on earth do you call what he said support for women? The mind boggles!

Because the only thing they would have been happy with was "TWAW, bigots". #nodebate

Needmoresleep · 06/12/2019 14:44

Erishkigal, thanks for that.

The 3 week University lecturer strike has come just at the right time...except I, and many others grew out of University politics a long time ago.

Its mad. Lots of people, often Tories, dont trust Boris. He ought to be easy to defeat. Yet both Labour and the LibDems seem to be falling over themselves to be even less electable.

OvaHere · 06/12/2019 14:46

From what I can gather a lot of it is about language. Talking about sex based rights at all is a no no. Also he said 'transgender people and women' which apparently is also heresy.

PeterRouseTheFleshofMankind · 06/12/2019 14:51

I'm being very optimistic here, but I'm thinking about where we were 2 or so years ago - TWAW #no debate, people couldn't talk about this stuff at all, literally any mention of any concern for women's rights and you were written off as a bigot not just by Twitter TRAs with baseball bats but by anyone.

Now people like Emily Maitlis are supporting the cause, people are getting it. I really think a couple of years ago this question would have just been answered with 'we believe that transwomen are women' and that would have been it. It's very, very slow but I do feel that the Labour Party are inching away from that, and will continue to do so if they see the Lib Dems getting absolutely roasted for it.

The chink of sunlight on this issue is getting wider by the day, maybe I'm naive, but I really think we will do this.

Puuuuullllll!!!