Webchat with John McDonnell Friday 6 December 12:00

[BernardBlacksWineIceLolly]

Just thought I'd give a heads up, doesn't look like it's being promoted yet

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_live_events/3760829-Webchat-with-John-McDonnell-MP-Shadow-Chancellor-Friday-6-December-at-12-midday

No doubt we'll want to talk over his answers afterwards!

I too was very close to saying ok, at least Labour now seem to be on board with discussing it (unlike Lib Dems) but from what I'm reading now it seems to be they're saying "yes to single sex spaces but we will change the meaning of sex so that it includes men". Trying to be everything to everyone, but that's parties for you all over I guess.

Fuck sake, I want someone to vote for

Bovary, I can't see my comment in the thread at all now? Did I get deleted without even my username header remaining or something?

I’ve had a few webchat comments deleted like that. I don’t know if they only do it in webchats but it’s definitely a thing now.

I do feel that the Labour Party are inching away from that, and will continue to do so if they see the Lib Dems getting absolutely roasted for it.

I hope so. But all we got there was fudge not that different from Philip Lee’s answer. And no comment at all on Labour members’ violent & threatening behaviour in Brighton. Labour haven’t said nearly enough for me to trust them with my vote.

Once they allow self identity they will be unable to protect single sex spaces. How hard is that to understand?

he said 'transgender people and women' which apparently is also heresy.

To be fair some trans people are female. The transmen.

I have been worried about the levels of what some have described as abuse within this discussion and I think it's now time for us all to come together to have a proper and considered discussionJohn McDonnell

Just empty words. If there was real concern about this, then the intimidation and harassment of those attending the WPUK meeting in Brighton, and it's subsequent celebration from the Labour Party conference stagewould have been publicly condemned by McDonnell and he would be committing to facilitating our future meetings.

From what I can gather a lot of it is about language Talking about sex based rights at all is a no no. Also he said 'transgender people and women' which apparently is also heresy.

It’s interesting, isn’t it? The fanatical fixation on controlling the language. It’s a recurrent theme. This lobby seems to believe if they can criminalize the language used to describe external reality, external reality will be replaced with the fantasy in their head. The fact McDonnell failed to chant the correct liturgy shows he doesn’t really believe it. But he’s still willing to embrace self ID and chuck women under the bus for political expediency

Yes it's definitely a fixation Bovary. It's both incredibly stupid and incredibly chilling.

Bovary, I can't see my comment in the thread at all now? Did I get deleted without even my username header remaining or something?

It was the first time I'd participated in a webchat and I saw live deletions going on. At first I thought the site was glitching, till the penny dropped. There was only one subject that got this treatment.

I was appalled that one poster's real life experience - which I thought very pertinent to the discussion - was deleted within about a minute or so. All she was doing, from what I could see, was telling the truth. A very inconvenient truth clearly.

And no, there's no party political motive behind my post. Some principles transcend party politics. This is one of them.

Ova, I think it’s actually very frightening. It’s Newspeak. This lobby believes that if they criminalize the language used to describe external reality, it no longer exists and is replaced by their fantasy The obsession with silencing dissent proves the authoritarianism which dominates this.

This lobby seems to believe if they can criminalize the language used to describe external reality, external reality will be replaced with the fantasy in their head.

Yes, this is exactly it. They're so self absorbed they believe that they can change reality. Or make it obsolete.

Yes, this is exactly it. They're so self absorbed they believe that they can change reality. Or make it obsolete
Ereshkigal
Yes. They actually have used 1984 as a blueprint. That’s why so many of their battles are about compelled speech, about policing social media, about trying to force people to say two plus two makes five.

To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient...to deny the existence of objective reality

This lobby group are an existential threat to freedom of speech, freedom of thought, hard won women’s rights. And they are a fricking affront to democracy.

This lobby believes that if they criminalize the language used to describe external reality, it no longer exists and is replaced by their fantasy The obsession with silencing dissent proves the authoritarianism which dominates this.

Yup. How many fingers, John Winston?

They are using language as a bludgeon to demonise and criminalize anyone who won’t sing from the hymn sheet. By accusing them of ‘hate speech.’ In Harry’s case, it led to him being accused of a ‘hate incident.’ It’s one of the tactics described in James Kirkup’s expose.

But all we got there was fudge not that different from Philip Lee’s answer. And no comment at all on Labour members’ violent & threatening behaviour in Brighton. Labour haven’t said nearly enough for me to trust them with my vote.

Same here.

The Labour Party is currently being taken to court for misusing single sex exemptions. So if John McDonnell thinks a manifesto that contradicts itself and him talking out of both sides of his mouth in a webchat is going to convince me Labour is the party to uphold women's rights, he can fucking well think again.

Re: the language (sorry, have yet to read the full thread) - it is a minefield. It is hard to put sentences together to say what you mean whilst taking into account new uses of language to not offend people, that are also designed to make it impossible to say what you mean.

I struggle. I expect everyone in the street and the Clapham Omnibus struggle similarly, and some worse.

I don't want to go round offending people but I do want to be able to talk about what affects me in plain simple language with room to express myself and I agree with BovaryX that it is an affront to democracy, fricking and more.

I'm afraid I'm long, long past giving a shit about offending people. If you're part of a movement trying to take away my rights and destroy child safeguarding, I fucking well hope what I say does offend you.

I'm afraid I'm long, long past giving a shit about offending people.

I am getting there .

As you may be able to tell, the McDonnell webchat has not improved my mood!

I've just read the chat, with, presumably, all the dissidents edited out.

Without even the footprint of deleted posts, it all reads as Love and Harmony that nobody disagreed with. I'm left wondering how often this happens on webchats? It's very alarming to be presented with such altered reality on here.

When the questions in the main related to self identity being enshrined in law, why were mumsnet so diligent in taking them down? He should have heard /seen all these questions and recognised all our valid concerns.vote lost.

McDonnell is doing a rally in Glasgow tomorrow if anyone local would like to buttonhole him.

Is it true what some of the TRAs are saying on Twitter that Swinson refuses to come on Mumsnet?

When the questions in the main related to self identity being enshrined in law, why were mumsnet so diligent in taking them down? He should have heard /seen all these questions and recognised all our valid concerns.

Mumsnet have said that they make "a print out of the questions from the thread grouped by theme up to the point where the chat starts". So all the questions on that topic which were posted before the webchat started could have been left and printed out for him so that he could see how many of us were concerned about this.

It is very sad to see MNHQ deleting and silencing long term, intelligent, educated members.