Does MN have a problem with trans people? **MNHQ edited title as OP has apologised for 'accusatory' tone**

[tryandempathise]

Seem to be threads constantly on the issue of trans.

Why?

Is it because it conflicts with the idea of sex as a construct?

Is it an age thing?

There must be mums on here with trans kids - do you just stay out of it?

Why the obsession with the idea of being attacked by trans women? Is it not the modern equivalent of homophobic blokes all thinking gay men want to rape them?

And what are your thoughts on trans men?

Lots of us found this thread very enlightening:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3212371-Where-are-all-the-trans-men-An-Answer

Oh, please, Field. I'm not dancing with you today, this was a specific response to the OPs contention that the fact that she did not feel a sense of gender, but Trans people did and did relatively extreme things based on that belief, was a reason to conclude that gender did indeed exist as a real thing.

I'm sure you can post a few articles from popular science magazines to back up your belief in gender identity being a real thing, but it has as much authority over anyone else as me posting some encyclicals from the Pope. In short, your neo-religion is yours to believe. It has no authority in wider society.

Honestly, although I'd consider a missive from the Pope to have about as much authority over me as anything from a TRA (ie. none) I'd appreciate the fact that it would at least be better written and less likely to be punctuated with suicide threats when points likely to be controversial were raised.

Perhaps you should start asking why TRAs hate women so much. Especially middle aged women.
The death/rape threats, doxxing, going to their employers to get them fired and discredited.

Kittens, the Pope has enough on his plate with all the Catholics calling for his head after the Amazonian stood and the Pregnant Goddess/Mother Earth statues he accepted as a gift.😂

*stood = synod

I saw the toilets thing as an excuse to exclude trans women and probably would have perceived your comment the way you describe.

I think this is very revealing.

I say: "Rapists and paedophiles might use the pretence of being transgender as a way of accessing victims."

You read this as: "Transgender people are rapists and paedophiles."

Why would anyone twist my words in such a way?

The MacKinnon thing is driving me nuts. Husband is involved with cycling, and we have a young male friend who is incredibly talented and strong, who's competed nationally and internationally in road and track. We also have a female friend who is a former Commonwealth games competitor and winner in road and track. As strong, powerful, fit and absolutely determined our female friend is, with many years experience more than our younger male friend, as a 14 year old he beat her. He was still on junior gears, was still growing, and beat a female athlete selected for the commonwealth games. Now in his twenties, he could power straight through MacKinnon and leave someone else to clear up the resulting mince. MacKinnon wins because MacKinnon races against those who didn't go through male puberty. I'd have some respect if MacKinnon, just once, raced against those who DO match MacKinnon genetically and biologically. I'd even accept a race against 15 year olds, who are still growing and aren't yet at full strength, who are on junior gears so they're disadvantaged. I'd still bet good money that MacKinnon would not win.

Lots of us found this thread very enlightening:

The Stephen Whittle thread? Yes, very enlightening.

Gertrudesgarden. The MacKinnon thing is driving me nuts.

I know exactly what you mean. I cannot bear to read or see anything about it in the media.

I just hope that very soon every woman in British cycling, and other sports too, refuses to compete against the MacKinnons of the world and goes off to form their own championships.

A bit OT but what with the background of the new Pope being relevant (and interesting to me in terms of what he does differently to predecessors) I enjoyed this film.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Elephant_(2012_film)

Why would anyone twist my words in such a way?

Because the argument simply cannot be won without doing so?

Oh I'd love it if women refused to compete, but alas, I doubt many have any choice. They work for a team, they follow team instructions. It's the same for the guys, and it's not a sport to enter thinking it'll be easy, not if you're competing against your own sex. Sadly the cycling world has a history of truly shocking and sexist behaviour against female riders, from conditions, to pay and coverage, and this is just a continuation of the sexist claptrap.

"Rapists and paedophiles might use the pretence of being transgender as a way of accessing victims.

Which is true isn't it, it's happened enough already.

There's no 'might', they current are accessing victims via the loop hole the size of russia.

And to be specific HQ THEY in this case is Rapists and paedophiles, i know you like to find excuses to remove posts about paedophiles.

Rapists and paedophiles might use the pretence of being transgender as a way of accessing victims. Which is true isn't it, it's happened enough already.

But if you accept Stonewall's philosophy of Acceptance Without Exception and the principle of self-ID, then it's transphobic to suggest that anyone might be pretending and blows the concept of 'true trans' out of the window. If they say they're transgender, they are.

If they say they're transgender, they are.

Yes, Acceptance Without Exception and even discussing this is wrong.

I've learnt to stay out of it. My DC doesn't choose to be the way they are.

If it's admitted that some people, any people, may not be sincere then the entire concept of self ID has to be abandoned. Which is why we're not allowed to talk about that.

It's not just this one issue where people aren't guaranteed to be truthful, people lie and fib and cheat in every single facet of life. Politicians lie, constantly. Spouses say the midnight text was "from work". Kids say "a big boy did it and ran away". I don't understand the expectation of total capitulation to nobody, NEVER EVER EVER would lie about this. Humans lie all the time. Why is this one issue where it'll always be the unquestionable truth?

*TheProdigalKittensReturn

Datun's posts do tend to be remarkably clear and in deliberately level headed and non-inflammatory language, so it's a significant loss to the community when they're removed.

(If I'm the devil on one shoulder, or Lang is, Datun is the angel on the other.)

Late to acknowledge this from kittens. Praise indeed.

And bless you, my child.

Hail, holy Datun, Mother of FWR.

Hmm, what should she be holding in the painting if she's FWRs holy mother?

^You read this as: "Transgender people are rapists and paedophiles."
Why would anyone twist my words in such a way?^

Oldcrone
Excellent question. The only explanation is a deliberate attempt to misrepresent your clearly worded, unambiguous post. There are more straw men in the OP’s arguments than at a convention of scarecrows..,,

Datun hail yee

It's very upsetting that one of your most informative posts on one of the most informative threads on this issue has been deleted.

Well, I'm praying for liberation now, aren't we all.