Does MN have a problem with trans people? **MNHQ edited title as OP has apologised for 'accusatory' tone**

[tryandempathise]

Seem to be threads constantly on the issue of trans.

Why?

Is it because it conflicts with the idea of sex as a construct?

Is it an age thing?

There must be mums on here with trans kids - do you just stay out of it?

Why the obsession with the idea of being attacked by trans women? Is it not the modern equivalent of homophobic blokes all thinking gay men want to rape them?

what should she be holding in the painting if she's FWRs holy mother?

Bingo card and dabber?

It's very upsetting that one of your most informative posts on one of the most informative threads on this issue has been deleted.

If I can find a scheeenshot, I'll rewrite it.

Within guidelines I mean

I don’t hate trans people. I’m scared. It comes back to the adage that men are afraid women will laugh at them, women are afraid men will kill them. Male bodied people, who identify as female, gender fluid or any other socially constructed identity don’t suddenly become less of a risk statistically to women’s safety just because of how they decide they wish to identify.

Oh, I've just taken a look. And the deleted post isn't the one I thought it was.

I believe the deleted post mentioned autogynephilia. So a rather predictable report really.

I can easily re-write that. I've asked hq.

I say: "Rapists and paedophiles might use the pretence of being transgender as a way of accessing victims."

You read this as: "Transgender people are rapists and paedophiles."

Why would anyone twist my words in such a way?

It can be a deliberate twisting of words, but I think it's also what you tend to get whenever people have heard about "all those horrible " first before ever actually meeting any. They are already primed to expect prejudice and hatred and automatically put that interpretation on what they read even if it actually does not say anything like that. Ideally, that's only at first and they can eventually read what's actually being said.

I can't find the pic of the men who McKinnon would be competing against if they competed in that sex category. But the comparison was ludicrous.

Its not McK's male competition, but this (repost) also highlights some clear differences between McK and the women racing against them. Can you spot McK?

The bloke behind (on the rollers) appears to have seen something unusual!

Buzz, that’s actually a great illustration, it’s really effective. I find it difficult to understand how anyone can argue that McK’s inclusion in that race wasn’t profoundly unfair to every other competitor.

not even going to bother with this one

In the tiniest hope OP is genuine, maybe OP should think about why OP is avoiding nearly all of the direct questions here?

Maybe OP could specify exactly how a person who is a non-natal-woman lives "as a woman" - what steps should they take to be accepted as doing so?

Buzz, I'd often wondered about your brill user name. I thought it was the names of 3 pets and grinned everyone I saw it .

*everytime.

And if I were to say "well I identify as being tall" while looking down at someone they'd be fully within their rights to point at the things under my feet and go "those are stilts, mate".

You do the best analogies, kittens

I thought it was the names of 3 pets
The cats are not impressed with this suggestion!

what should she be holding in the painting if she's FWRs holy mother?

♀️in one hand,
🏁 in the other?

Because why else would someone do such an extreme thing?

What's extreme about merely saying "I identify as a woman now. My pronouns are she/her"?

Bingo card and dabber?

But if you accept Stonewall's philosophy of Acceptance Without Exception and the principle of self-ID, then it's transphobic to suggest that anyone might be pretending and blows the concept of 'true trans' out of the window. If they say they're transgender, they are.

So accepting Stonewall's view that nobody ever lies about being transgender, what do they have to say about the proportion of male prisoners who identify as trans being sex offenders? Isn't the figure something like 50% of transwomen in prison are sex offenders? According to Stonewall it's not possible that those sex offenders are just pretending to be trans in order to gain access to new victims through transfer to a women's prison.

And what about detransitioners? Nobody ever lies about being transgender and nobody is ever mistaken about being transgender, yet some people think they're transgender and then realise that they're not. How can the view that people can never be mistaken about being transgender co-exist with the existence of detransitioners?

The answer seems to be that the detransitioners were never trans in the first place, but how can 'anyone is trans if they say they are' co-exist with people who detransition not ever really being trans (even though they said they were)?

Good questions, OldCrone.

Isn’t there also some scary stat whereby 1 in 50 male prisoners of any kind identify as trans, in the UK? I think I saw that recently.

Which seems to corroborate the fears expressed by representatives of the Prison Service (and Psychologists too, I think) in the Women and Equalities Committee Trans Enquiry that under self ID, many male prisoners would identify as trans simply for the benefits they perceive that would bring them, in terms of being moved to a women’s prison, being seen as less of a risk at parole hearings etc.

I believe that funnily enough, those reservations weren’t included in the final Report. Odd.

So accepting Stonewall's view that nobody ever lies about being transgender,

No we don’t accept that. Not at all. James Barrett has already written at length about the potential likelihood for male offenders to lie about being transgender in prison. As submitted to the government.

No we don’t accept that. Not at all.

Oh. OK. Then how is a woman supposed to know the difference (unless she's Layla Moran of course).

what should she be holding in the painting if she's FWRs holy mother?

A nest of vipers?

Maybe we could commission SandyDrawsBadly....