Only consenting to receiving medical treatment from a female is not acceptable

[Siameasy]

mobile.twitter.com/Docstockk/status/1198215833006362630

One NHS trust says it’s unacceptable for women to say they only consent to medical treatment from “natal females”. I find this completely outrageous and couldn’t find a thread on it already. Bloody hell!

That case study is only a case study in how to abuse women. That's it.

I'm not sure providing intimate care to an unwilling, distressed and effectively coerced patient is a 'right'. For anyone. In fact I'm suspicious of the motives of any hcp who would wish to do that.

Will probably be criticised for this but really don't think women should have to have male drs doing intimate examinations.

Had an appointment at the GUM clinic recently. Needed an internal exam and was really surprised when i had a male dr. Made me so uncomfortable. I panicked and said I didn't want him to examine me. Luckily was able to be seen by a female dr instead. What I don't understand is how she was in an appointment with a man at the time. Why was he not allocated the male dr and I the female dr? I was on my period at the time too- that only added to me not wanting a male dr.

I had to have LLETZ treatment for CIN2 as well and the male dr who did it left instruments hanging out of me whilst casually standing chatting to his male colleague. That's just poor never mind sex but was humiliating.

What strikes me is not that it isn’t very practical/realistic etc but that the TRUST say it is UNACCEPTABLE to make the request in the first place

Whether you personally care or not the trust say women (and presumably men?) who do care are behaving unacceptably. The trust do not accept that it is ok to ask for a same sex practitioner.

The nurse should check with the transgender patient and sensitively ask if everything is OK. If the transgender patient has heard any of the discussions it is imperative that she is given every assurance that the matter will be dealt with. If the transgender patient is visibly upset and there is spare capacity it would be appropriate to offer her the option to move to a single room, although this must be with the patient in mind rather than conflict avoidance. (Only one of the patients is 'in mind' here)

General appreciation of transgender issues is very low in our communities and often this is used as a rationale for behaviour that is essentially transphobic. (What, not wanting to be in a single-sex ward with someone who is of the other sex?)

Here we go people, that famliar strawman... If a white woman complained to a nurse about sharing a ward with a black person, or a heterosexual male complained about being in a ward with a gay man we would expect our staff to behave in a manor [sic] that deals with the behaviour immediately.

Therefore, if a woman on a single-sex ward complains about being in a ward with a person with a penis, deal with it immediately. (And yes, Mx Quentin, we're focusing on the penis here! But not yours!)

I'm now fortunate enough that if I needed medical care from a medical professional I'd accept it from whoever was qualified to provide it. However, this privilege is relatively recent. When I was 18 I was violently sexually assaulted by a stranger on the street. For many years afterwards I was deeply suspicious and fearful of men. This affected me to the point that I was unable to be in an enclosed space alone with one. For example, if I was in a lift and a man got in, I'd have to get out. This was not a conscious decision-making process; it was driven by the visceral panic response I had to the proximity of a man. My heart pounded, I felt sweaty, terrified, trapped. I guarantee that I would have had this response in a medical consulting room if confronted with a transwoman. I am not a transphobe (in the real-world sense) but I am certain that my fear response would have made no distinction between a man and a transwoman because of the biological reality of transgenderism. For the sake of women in the position that I once was, we cannot prioritise hurt feelings and failure to validate ideology over the genuine needs of (possibly) traumatised women.

I had a bad experience with a male gynae. I’m probably not alone. I felt something he did was really untoward but I just didn’t feel I could say anything; I wasn’t 100% sure but . enough to still cringe now. I was meant to go back (birth injury) but I won’t go back unless I see a female. Luckily I don’t live in Brighton

Erm...if an obviously male person is placed on a female ward, then the health professionals are effectively announcing the trans persons trans status, which , being illegal, suggests that a trans person should be given a private space

X posted. Sorry about your experience Cynara.

If a white woman complained about sharing with a black woman that would be reprehensible.

However given we don’t segregate wards by race, but do segregate them by sex, it’s a totally meaningless comparison.

TimeTravelling that reminds me, the male gynae who did my LLETZ for CIN2 made the whole experience uncomfortable for many reasons.

At the time, young and scared, I just put up and shut up, thankful for getting treatment.

However, several years later that male gynaecologist was struck off, following a serious of complaints from women louder and braver than I was at the time.

Wards are not normally separated by race or sexuality. They are normally separated by sex. There's actually a vast amount of fuss about not having mixed sex wards.

If the woman has asked why she's sharing a ward with a male then quite obviously the trans status is apparent and breaching anyone's privacy is irrelevant. The woman is asking why they are on a mixed sex ward, and being frankly gaslighted and lied to that a biological male is a biological female, despite the evidence of everyone's eyes. So the woman is being required to pretend.

And yes. Only one patient is worthy of consideration here, only one set of feelings matter, only one person's interests are centred. Blatant bias. Again, the primary requirement upon a female patient is to prioritise and service the needs of a biological male.

There is a huge difference between being treated in an emergency and specifically requesting a female practitioner to perform a mammogram or smear test - neither of which are emergencies & can therefore be rescheduled in the event of staffing issues. I mean, that's obvious isn't it? A lot of shit goes out the window in an emergency and we tend to pick up the pieces after.

Having one's request overridden for a planned procedure is in itself a potentially re-traumatising experience for many victims of sexual violence. The very essence of sexual violence is for one's bodily autonomy to be disregarded by somebody in a position of power over you. To be considered just flesh, an object to be used.

Actually many scenarios within the NHS can make one feel similar and can be harder to deal with for survivors of sexual abuse but for obvious reasons, intimate procedures are going to be particularly stressful, even with a female practitioner. It's recognised that the best way to treat survivors with ptsd is to help them feel in control of as many aspects of the procedure as possible.

Many people with ptsd freeze in the event of perceived threat. The idea of a letter was so that a woman could ask in advance in case she was unable to stop a procedure with a male that she hadn't consented to.

I'm pretty incredulous that this has happened and that people are actually attempting to argue its OK.

I'm not sure providing intimate care to an unwilling, distressed and effectively coerced patient is a 'right'. For anyone. In fact I'm suspicious of the motives of any hcp who would wish to do that.

It's a bit like the "rights" of male police officers to strip search women, which we saw discussed the other day.

It's quite astonishing how much of what is encompassed by "trans rights" is what no decent person would EVER insist on.

And to underline it..it’s unacceptable for boring old me to ask for a female..it’s therefore also unacceptable for my 85 year old grandmother to ask for a female, it’s unacceptable for my 18 year old niece to ask for a female, it’s unacceptable for a rape victim to ask for a female, it’s unacceptable for someone who has previously been molested by a male gynae to ask for a female, it’s unacceptable for a victim of FGM to ask for a female....Disgraceful

Even if someone would accept life saving treatment from a man, it doesn't make them hypocritical to not accept intimate screening from a man- these are very different situations.

Let's say you know there is lower uptake in screening in religious minorities and abuse survivors. You have the choice between saying "oh well, if they're going to be coy, they can just die at higher rates," or asking how to increase screening rates and listening when they tell you that female only care would be a solution.

This isn't some daft gotcha game, where you twist their words and try to find a way to encroach on their boundaries inch by inch (if you'd be okay when dying on a road... if you'd be okay with a man if ...). This isn't about winning, it's about healthcare access and respect.

This isn't about winning, it's about healthcare access and respect.

Why wouldn't any caring, open minded person be willing to provide people with same sex hcps if that's what they wish and prefer, makes care easier for them, enables better health care for all? Why wouldn't it be ok to provide a wide range of options and provisions that respect everyone's needs?

LetsSplash

This isn't some daft gotcha game, where you twist their words and try to find a way to encroach on their boundaries inch by inch (if you'd be okay when dying on a road... if you'd be okay with a man if ...). This isn't about winning, it's about healthcare access and respect.

Great wording! I think someone's done a 'Green Eggs and Ham' version of this - maybe we need a healthcare-focused one.

That's why I think that despite this evil 'guidance', most HCPs on the ground will do their best to ensure female patients are listened to and respected and have the choice of female nurses and doctors. Well, I hope that's the case, anyway. But there are monstrous people in every profession.

It's a bit like the "rights" of male police officers to strip search women, which we saw discussed the other day

Exactly that. Because if you tell the Male police officer who has started gender reassignment that he isn’t allowed to search females you're admitting he’s not actually female and that has to be covered up at all times; no one is allowed to admit this

Anything that lets the light in must be blocked

Just be grateful that ANYONE is attending to your problem.

Just be grateful that ANYONE is attending to your problem.

I hope you've not read through the thread because as a response that's disgusting.

Personally, I'm not traumatised or anything, but if I have a choice between a routine cervical smear from a man and no cervical smear, I'll just live with the increased the cancer risk. Smears are unpleasant enough anyway.

The same goes obviously for a cervical smear from a transwoman , except with much more strength of feeling. I would never under any circumstances be willing to receive intimate care from a transwoman who had deliberately applied for a job administering cervical smears or mammograms or other female-specific care.

Just reflecting on the amazing job that trans rights activists have done on 'hearts and minds'

That people would happily sign-off NHS guidance that equates a female requesting that her single-sex boundaries are respected to being similar to racist and homophobic behaviour.

And that so many people will nod along, yep, that's awful, terrible woman, remove her. Evil transphobe.

And the accompanying minimisation - just be grateful/not a problem for me.

It never fails to a amaze me that, despite the millions of women raped and abused and murdered by men every day, people STILL can't understand why women want to decide who touches them and who has access to them.

Bodily autonomy for men? Of course! Bodily autonomy for women? Nah!!!