I hope my daughter is a lesbian.

[RhinoR]

She's 10.

She says she doesn't like boys. That one day she will get a girlfriend. She says she has a crush on a girl in her class.

This has me hoping she will indeed be gay.
From my own experiences to those I read daily about young women being abused, coerced and degraded by their partners I fear so much for my daughter going through such things.

Women aren't perfect of course, being gay won't protect her from heartbreak and maybe some abuse at the hands of her partner but I daresay I would sleep better at night.

Is that terrible of me?

I just remembered my second reaction to my DD Coming out (1st was "what took you so long?") - it was, "Woohoo! I only have to pay for half the wedding!"

There are also so many other small but satisfying benefits to living with another woman instead of a man

*We don't have to eat the smaller portion

• We can watch The Crown and Downton abbey without anyone whining they want Top Gear on*

*We can share clothes and jewelry

• household chores are shared equally*

What a pile of lame stereotypes, apart from possibly the bit about sharing clothes (although given the number of FWR posters who regularly seem to wear their male partners' hoodies , sweaters etc even that one seems doubtful.

There are at least as many unhinged lesbians as there are unhinged heterosexuals, sorry.

Well that's definitely not true, because the proportion of people who are lesbians is tiny (is it less than 5%) than the number of people who are straight. So numbers-wise, there are nowhere near as many "unhinged lesbians".

And that's before you add into the equation that "unhinged lesbians" are far less likely than unhinged males to rape and murder you.

So don't be daft.

LonginesPrime lighten up! Nowhere did I suggest it was a choice. I was pointing out that if a woman does happen to be a lesbian then there are certain small but satisfying benefits. I don't know many straight couples who are able to share their jewelry and shoes.

Lesbian here. I've got size 8 feet and my partner size 4. Please stop this shoes and jewellery stuff, you trivialise us.

For me, the best bit about being a lesbian is the wonderful women you get to meet and the sense of being 'home' that comes when you find your tribe. I don't deny there are some unhinged and damaged individuals in the lesbian community but judging from what I read on the Relationships thread and others on MN I doubt it's a higher proportion than the genpop and as others have pointed out, the chance of being murdered by your lesbian partner is significantly lower than the chance of a straight women being murdered by her male partner.

I tried to be straight until my early 30s. I'd been brought up to expect to get married and have a family. I used to see a group of about a dozen women meeting regularly in a local pub in north London. I'd seem some of the same women occasionally at the local arts centre or walking on Hampstead Heath. I recognised them because they were always laughing and having a good time together. Eventually I came out, found details of a local lesbian group and it turned out to be the women I'd watched and envied. I still want to weep with relief that I found my tribe.

I think Scarlett555 reference to shoes and jewellery, whist true for more lesbian couples than hetero couples, most likely, was also shorthand for that sense of belonging and mutual understanding that women share. Straight women recognise that too.

But women are as varied as men and women are. I don't feel like I belong or share mutual understanding with all women. Why would I? I share a sense of belonging and understanding with some women and some men based on common experiences and interests.

Because if it is reported by 20% of the population it is happening to many more and the 80% bloody well knows.

It clearly sticks in your craw that the poster says she has so many good male friends - you just can't bear the challenge to your prejudices.

Still, at the end of the day, its your life, believe whatever you wish - just don't expect most women to be sucked into it. (Rad feminism's elephant in the room and all that...)

our shared womanhood is an added layer of connection.

Very true. They don't say men are from Mars and women are from Venus for nothing.

Personally I'm glad I don't have to live with anyone from Mars.

What is the common experience of womanhood that we all share though?

Surely our experiences of womanhood can be as varied as their are individuals? What is it that I have in common with 50% of the population, apart from chromosomes?

IthinkScarlett555reference to shoes and jewellery, whist true for more lesbian couples than hetero couples, most likely, was also shorthand for that sense of belonging and mutual understanding that women share. Straight women recognise that too

What "shared sense of belonging and mutual understanding" is this?

They don't say men are from Mars and women are from Venus for nothing

I thought the feminist position on that was it was all bunkum?

I think it is important to point out that not all lesbians are feminists and some consider themselves ‘lib fems’.

We also know that heterosexual males claim to be lesbian women, and insist that liking stereotypical things associated with females makes them women, and their attraction to females makes them lesbians. Obviously such a male would not experience any of the real benefits of being a homosexual female and would have to rely on frivolous things. Neither would they experience any discrimination due to being a lesbian, as they are simply heterosexual males who claim/believe they are lesbian women.

It is always important to keep these two things in mind imo.

The personal benefits for me are nothing to do with frivolous things, being a female homosexual has allowed me to be with partners who are capable of seeing me as their equal, and not having as many barriers to forming a equal relationship. It has also allowed me to love and value women, despite being born into a society that conditions me to do the opposite. It has allowed me to connect with female partners on a very deep level, due to us being able to understand each other, as we have shared experiences due to being born female. It has also allowed me to have fulfilling lovemaking that is actually about love, pleasure and mutual respect. It is impossible to convey just how satisfying and liberating that is on a personal level.

Many believe that being a lesbian is just about swapping males sexually for females, and there is no real difference other than that, perhaps that could be true if we didn’t live in a male dominated society. Although since we do live in such a society there are clearly material benefits and negatives to being a lesbian currently, as a lesbian who is also a radical feminist I can see that, it’s got nothing to do with sexist tropes like ‘men are from mars females are from venus’.

I think it is curious that talking about any benefits to being a lesbian is framed as either evangelising or man hating. If sexuality is innate then what difference would it make to talk about the positives of being a lesbian or indeed the negatives of partnering with males? If sexuality is completely innate then the vast majority of girls would still grow-up having a desire to partner with males anyway. The only possible effects would be that more women would perhaps choose to stay single, and lesbians would not face as much lesbophobia, I do not see these as negatives consequences. The only way I think it could be seen as a negative is if one thinks women should prioritise partnering with males, and cannot have a satisfying life as a single woman, or they do not believe sexuality is innate and think conditioning has an effect on one’s developing sexuality, and so no questioning or alternatives to that conditioning should be permitted to exist.

I think both ideas that sexuality is a choice or innate are equally as dangerous, both arguments are double edged swords for us as homosexuals. Regardless of whether sexuality is a choice, innate or part of development (so influenced by many different things), if we were truly accepted in society then why we are homosexual would not matter.

Interesting that lesbians on here are being challenged for sharing their positive experiences. Just shows we do still need our Pride events.

Re the shared womanhood - if we're specifically talking about female sexuality here then clearly women know how to please other women. It doesn't take much imagination to figure that one out.

Yet another positive about being a lesbian is not giving a shit about what other people think of your sexual orientation. It is very liberating to be out and proud and if people don't like it it's their problem. It is cheesy but you really learn that the people who matter won't mind and those that mind don't matter.

Being a lesbian can really help weed out toxic people.

I think it is curious that talking about any benefits to being a lesbian is framed as either evangelising or man hating.

Great post, Stopthisnow

It clearly sticks in your craw that the poster says she has so many good male friends - you just can't bear the challenge to your prejudices.

You are mistaken. My views are post judgments not pre judgments.
You are right that I look askance at women who declare all the men they know are good men. Statistics give the claim the lie. However, ignorance is bliss and willful ignorance is essential to women whose lives are full of 'nice guys'.

Well clearly all.women aren't nice women either so it's a bit of a ridiculous position to take.

I for one, don't know any men that are abusive, sexist, or misogynistic. Do they exist? Of course they do but I don't know why it's so unbelievable that the small number of men that I know aren't like it. Do they have their faults? Of course, just as all of the women, including me, that I know have our faults.

This "them and us" attitude is really quite odd. A poster wrote above about the positives of being a lesbian but they're just the signs of being in a good, healthy relationship. The sex of the partners is irrelevant. Any of us in loving relationships could write a similar post so it's really quite odd to try and pretend that they are attributes only found in lesbian relationships. No doubt, any lesbian in an abusive relationship wouldn't agree with you.

I don't see why you're setting this up to be quite so confrontational. It's almost like you're saying straight women are wrong or straight women can't have happy or great relationships which is just bonkers.

You are right that I look askance at women who declare all the men they know are good men. Statistics give the claim the lie. However, ignorance is bliss and willful ignorance is essential to women whose lives are full of 'nice guys'

I'm sorry if you have had a miserable life but that doesn't give you the right to insist women who haven't are ignorant or lying.

I don't see why you're setting this up to be quite so confrontational. It's almost like you're saying straight women are wrong or straight women can't have happy or great relationships which is just bonkers

This often comes up. Being gay or a lesbian is no better or worse than being straight. There has been discussion on this thread about the benefits of being a lesbian including a to me rather creepy post about a woman knowing how another woman's body works- as if twiddling body parts the right way is all that matters.

You (general you) can write as much as you want about how much better a lesbian relationship might be (including all that fun sharing of clothes and jewellery ! !) - it makes no difference for me. I am not sexually attracted to women and never will be.

I don't see why you're setting this up to be quite so confrontational. It's almost like you're saying straight women are wrong or straight women can't have happy or great relationships which is just bonkers.

There's been plenty of confrontational posts on here but none I've seen from lesbians!

Saying there are good and positive things about being a lesbian isn't any reflection on straight women and their relationships.

Yet another positive about being a lesbian is not giving a shit about what other people think of your sexual orientation. It is very liberating to be out and proud and if people don't like it it's their problem.

Again, Scarlett, really happy for you, but I don't live in your world (I wish I did!) and my experience of being a lesbian is quite different from this.

I don't think the experience you outline above is representative of being a lesbian - it seems more representative of being surrounded by liberal, accepting family and friends.

Lesbians don't universally feel proud about their sexual orientation and the culture I grew up in heaped shame on gay and lesbian people by the truckload.

But I do agree with you that we still need Pride and that people's negative opinions of lesbians shouldn't matter.

TooLateThePhalarope this thread isn't about you it's about the OP's DD who may or not be a lesbian.

And there is nothing 'creepy' about a woman knowing another woman's body - it's pretty homophobic of you to suggest there is.

God - I'd hate to be a lesbian!