Shall we start a feminist think tank?

[Newuser123123]

There's lots of clever, knowledgeable women on here. Perhaps we could have a space for gathering research, ideas and policy proposals?

Great idea. I’m in.

I dont think a think tank will do anything about being politically homeless as surely the role of a think tank is to look into the implications of political policies irrespective of which party is making them.

Is it enough to say if is a think tank with a gender critical stance?

(Althouh a lot of women are now saying we are letting the trans agenda win is we use GC and should now start talking about "sex based rights2!).

Althouh a lot of women are now saying we are letting the trans agenda win is we use GC and should now start talking about "sex based rights2!.

Talk me through that one?

Because it's quite important to me that I'm critical of the construct of gender.

I'm a bit wary of the phrase "sex-based rights", as I can imagine the term swiftly becoming used to justify the same-old-same-old corralling of me into a set of arbitrary "rights" because I'm a woman, which are different from the arbitrary set of "rights" for men. Whereupon I'm back to square one.

Half asleep last night I was thinking we need a word like atheist - agenderist? Does that already exist?

Will make contact with the other groups today to see how we can best use our efforts for the cause

I think where we could really make a difference is in raising public awareness about the various issues, impact on women’s rights and what our rights currently are under the law. I think the overwhelming majority of people have NO idea what is going on. I’ve spoken to so many well educated, intelligent people who haven’t even realised we have SEX based rights enshrined in law - they all thought it was gender based already, and they haven’t heard of the Fair Cop campaign or Maya’s case etc.

So maybe approaching the various organisations and finding out if added publicity would be the best way to help? (And also wouldn’t cost much as so much is via social media, word of mouth, PR contacts with journalists etc)

Related, maybe we could start a list of journalists who have been covering these issues or are supportive on Twitter etc?

sex based rights

Not sure I am in a position to explain this as it was something said to me (when I used the phrase gender critical).

Part of the problem is the campaign to blur the lines of the meaning of the words sex and gender means you cant assume someone takes the same meaning as you do when using either or both words.

Yes being gender critical could be just about not wanting gender stereotyping to happen from the moment of birth by family, school, advertising, etc., etc..

Sex based rights is about the basic underlying reality of discrimination against women just because of their sex. The gender stereotyping is one of the mechanisms, but sex discrimination is not just about being made to wear pink, but the fact that male violence against women happens irrespective of whether women are performing the gender stereotypes that society (ie patriarchy) imposes on us.

It maybe that there should be two parallel campaigns to help get this across to those who aren't particularly aware or focused on who things are drifting.

ie get rid of gender as a concept in the same way as people challenged racist stereotypes

and campaign against sex discrimination in all areas of life, work, home, male violence, sexual exploitation

(Obviously more complex than this but posting in haste.)

Half asleep last night I was thinking we need a word like atheist - agenderist? Does that already exist?

Realist.

Because it's quite important to me that I'm critical of the construct of gender.

I'm not in the UK so I've not said much here though I'm interested in what you all come up wit.

One thing that has struck me about the term GC though is there are IMO a lot of women who don't think gender constructs should be saying things like women can't be in the military, or aren't good at math, but they aren't really concerned about destroying masculinity or femininity altogether, they might even like those things. They want them in their proper place might be one way to say it.

They are concerned about gender expectations interfering with women's rights, and women having proper protections required by our sex differences. And they are I suspect a large group who don't get heard much. A group that represented their views could really benefit from their numbers, but I wonder if the term GC might be a bit alienating to them.

Realism vs Genderism

Pro sex realist is anti genderist.

Realist feminist has a better ring to it. Realfem, or just real. Says what it does on the tin and pays no heed to TRA drama. Less agin, more for.

Have had positive initial responses from
SSA uk
Woman's place uk
Fair play for women
Lgb alliance.

Will keep you updated
Once we have worked out a way to share work securely I suggest we pick some priority areas to begin pulling together available research, above was suggested :
Single sex spaces
Medical treatment for children with GD
Women's sports

Please bear with me as we start to get organised, there are 100 different voices here so it will be difficult to meet everyone's expectations but I am so heartened and inspired to start working with you all.

Thanks

Medical treatment for children with GD

Are you thinking along the lines of simplifying existing analyses so they are easily digestible or critically appraising existing studies? Can contribute to either.

I think creating a library of existing research, (making sure it is all reputable) then analysing that research would be an excellent idea, would appreciate your ideas for structure / approach etc

Obviously people more knowledgeable than me will know what to include about making sure we're not one sided and listen to the genuine concerns of people with GD

We want to be able to present policy makers with well thought-out solutions that will be palatable to all, I think we've got our work cut out!

I think a good starting point is to gather existing reviews of the evidence base eg transgender trend etc then to look at the studies that have guided policy makers and finally a resource of all studies. Huge piece of work - will dm you once I have preliminary info , but bear with me will be a while.

Repeal the GRA

Educating organisations that the EA exemption allows single sex spaces.

Women's prisons

No Y chromosomes in women's sport.

A critical analysis of the concept of 'trans' and how it is actually AGP or gender dysphoria.

The 'transing' of children.

Campaign to get 'gender' on forms replaced with 'sex' again.

Thank you for kicking this off. Newuser Please let us know what help you need.

Great to hear you’ve got some positive initial responses from those groups newuser

As part of the library, I think it would be useful to maintain a list of current events, examples of the impact. At the moment, it’s all scattered about- every day I read about another example of free speech being shut down, or someone’s job coming under threat etc, but they don’t seem to be held in any central place so it’s all very anecdotal or grasping at vaguely remembering some article somewhere. Possible lists with links:

1. GC talks being threatened to be shut down
2. Changes to police policy (e.g. reports of crimes reported by gender, that thread about searches by gender)
3. GC people shut down on Twitter/FB
4. Schools teaching gender identity
5. Quick links to Stonewall, Mermaids etc and then quick links to 4th Wave, Transgender Trend etc,
6. Lists of GC journalists, doctors questioning positive affirmation (like Susan Bewley) etc

And so on...

If we could have a giant library that other groups could access and we could be a source for media requests, it might be helpful. I’m going to start tracking a lot of these myself, but it would be good to have a central location to hold them.

Oh, and it would be good if we could map out the big picture of where all the influence is coming from - I.e. Stonewall is funded by the Govt and now they have influence in X ways on the police, schools, NHS etc.

@GetbusywiththeFizzee thank you, there is no rush, I'd rather do this thoroughly and comprehensively

@wickedgood that's a really good idea, evidencing where even discussing the issues has caused controversy/ been shut down.

If people can start by using their own spreadsheets then we can merge them at a later date when we have a secure way to work

If we call these issues 1,2 and 3
1, Single sex spaces
2, Medical treatment for children with GD
3, Women's sports

If someone more knowledgeable than me can break these down into (numbered) subsections, then people can pick one to gather research on? Makes it more manageable?

This is really interesting.

I think the confusion between sex and gender and the way some people and organisations use gender when they mean sex (perhaps without realising the implications) really hinders debate.

Alan Henness on Twitter regularly tweets like thisthreadreaderapp.com/thread/1195152575852662785.html pointing out factual inaccuracies in eg job ads, policies.

If we came up with a similar standard format for more casual uses, perhaps we could all send emails, tweets, whatever when we spot gender when sex is meant? It would only take a few minutes but if a lot of us did it, it could add up?

So is the idea to focus only on gender related issues?

@bertrand
I'm open to ideas but I think initially these are subjects that are in need of extra attention and resources. If the formula works well we can roll it out to other areas.
I think keep the remit small and focused to begin with

Thanks

OK.

I find that deeply depressing.