Anyone want to talk about men, women, and sex?

[PuertoVallarta]

I am trying to think through some ideas around sex and relationships. I apologize if my ideas are not that clear. I suppose that’s why I need help.

Was talking with a male friend who told me all the women he’s been with have enjoyed anal sex. And I said, “You don’t know that. Of course they’re going to act like they like it. They know they have to like it.” He was surprised and very hurt. I felt bad for casting doubt on his previous relations. I had no proof that these women were faking it, just because I myself can’t imagine anyone liking it.

But I do believe in my heart of hearts that women know they have to like sex stuff unquestioningly. On one hand, because we don’t want to hurt men’s feelings. On another hand, because we love men and we enjoy our relationships and we don’t want to lose them over something silly.

And I also believe that men don’t really consider women’s feelings in the same way. Instead of going along because they are scared of hurting us, the vast majority of men will harbor a growing resentment toward a female partner who denies them certain sex acts that they want.

When I asked the people around me, all I got was the same answer: “If one person wants to do something in the bedroom, and the other person doesn’t, then they are not sexually compatible. He shouldn’t pressure her. He should just leave her so they can both find someone they are compatible with.”

It is so depressing to me! Am I just being a control freak to think it’s unfair to ask women (almost all women, I think) to either give it up or be abandoned? Yes, I know nobody is entitled to a relationship. But I feel like this idea of “compatibility” is a result of women’s worth being tied to what we can provide sexually. A few days have passed since this discussion. My friend is still hurt by my comment, and I am sinking into a depression thinking about how this notion of “compatibility” might just be a way to keep women in line.

Perhaps my thinking is way off the mark. If anyone has time to share their own thoughts, it would be appreciated.

Extreme acts that could result in serious injury I am sure would be covered by the law in the same way that it would be illegal to kill me even if I asked you to do it.

You'd think. That's often not how it's working in practice.

And they could be equally judgemental and say that people who feel like you are repressed sexually we should endeavour to protect as much as possible people whose lives have led them to a place where they are unable to live fulfilled lives due to this repression.

but I don't need protecting in this way. I'm not going to consent to someone hurting me

how does me having vanilla missionary position sex with a loving partner mean that I need protecting?

You are being a little illogical here if I may say so

Extreme acts that could result in serious injury I am sure would be covered by the law

except they're not, are they? a man was able to rip open his partner's vagina with a spray bottle of bleach, and a jury believed him when he said she's consented to it

My suspicion is that it is more "normal" than you seem to think it is and as such could simply be a normal.expression of human sexuality rather than a symptom of a damaged life

maybe. Humans are a violent species. I'm just not sure it's something we should be uncritically embracing

Anal sex among young people in this study appeared to be taking place in a context encouraging pain, risk and coercion. Harm reduction efforts targeting anal sex may help encourage discussion about mutuality and consent, reduce risky and painful techniques and challenge views that normalise coercion.

And how many people actually reported this? You can keep quoting from the study but you are talking about so few individuals, and we don't even really know that they have experienced it anyway because of how the data was collected. Even if we overlook that you are talking about what, 1 third of the girls? So 10 girls? It's just too small to draw any conclusions from that. Surely you can see that?

If I were to tell you that I'd done a study and 100% of the female respondents said that they enjoyed anal sex and were always the instigators of it and the number of people that I interviewed was 10 no way would you then accept the conclusion that anal sex was enjoyable for all women and that society should adjust its views on it as a result of my study.

You know that you wouldn't accept a study arguing against your views based on a sample size this small.

You'd think. That's often not how it's working in practice.

Which is an issue with how the law is being applied rather than the law itself.

My suspicion is that it is more "normal" than you seem to think it is and as such could simply be a normal.

Filling up the bingo card here

Which is an issue with how the law is being applied rather than the law itself.

mmm, why do you think the law is not being applied consistently?

how does me having vanilla missionary position grin sex with a loving partner mean that I need protecting?

And the people having consensual BDSM sex would argue that they don't need protecting either.

It's you who is being illogical because you are saying that how you do it is right and anyone else needs protecting and basically don't know their own minds. That's incredibly patronising and it is illogical because you're saying that you know what you like, that it's what you consider normal and so therefore is ok. However, other people who know what they like must be damaged in some way, and don't really like.it but they just don't know that they don't like it and therefore need you to act as some.moral arbiter to protect them from themselves. How is that not illogical - that you are sure that you know your own mind but that other people don't? Maybe your views are shaped by your upbringing and exposure to certain ideas and that actually you don't really enjoy what you do, but have been repressed into thinking it's what you should do?

also this

Extreme acts that could result in serious injury I am sure would be covered by the law

Anal sex can result in serious injury. should it be illegal?

I "keep quoting" from it because you can't be arsed to read it but keep making assertions about it.

How many people do you know who want someone in debt, non-monogamous, opposite ideas about sex and who is unkind?

You may start out with someone who you think is the embodiment of all your needs, or who matches up to mental check-list - but people and their situations change...inevitably. And years later you may find yourself with that same someone who in certain ways no longer 'matches' you completely - and even in some important ways.

"...Was talking with a male friend who told me all the women he’s been with have enjoyed anal sex..."
Just a thought - do all men enjoy anal sex? I know a lot of gay men don't do anal so what about straight men? Do they all like being anally penetrated?
Are women being asked to use a dildo on their boyfriends. Seems to me men are being denied sexual fulfilment after all they're the ones with the prostate.

you seem very invested in it being OK to injure people or be injured for sexual pleasure Hooves

And the people having consensual BDSM sex would argue that they don't need protecting either.

if you don't see consensual PIV sex as completely different to hurting people or being hurt then you need to really analyse your views. Do you really feel that way?

It's you who is being illogical because you are saying that how you do it is right and anyone else needs protecting and basically don't know their own minds

Not everyone. but some people yes. Male / female interactions don't happen in a vacuum. We know that as a class men have a great deal more power than women, as well as being physically more powerful. We know that women and girls are socialised to put the needs and desires of men above their own

I'm not saying people can't hurt others during sex. I am saying I'll judge the fuck out of them for it, and the risk of the activity should be on them to encourage them to be really fucking sure that their partner has given informed consent

I'm not saying that people can't be hurt during sex. I am saying that I feel very sorry for them that they want bad things to happen to them, and I hope they get to a place where sex is about mutual pleasure, not pain.

judging the fuck out of sadists is my kink. what can I say?

And the people having consensual BDSM sex would argue that they don't need protecting either.

Except for the one who ends up dead. The other insists it was consensual murder and there you have a legal (and not that rare any more) can of worms spilled open.

FWR is all about no more murdered women.

Injecting heroine is usually consensual too, should we legalise that?

Anal sex can result in serious injury. should it be illegal?

No because it doesn't necessarily result in any injury at all. Driving a car can result in serious injury. Do you think that should be made illegal?

If any sex act is done recklessly or with an intent to cause serious injury or appropriate care wasn't taken to prevent injury then the person doing it should be subject to the law. I don't think you should ban certain acts simply because they could cause injury if due care isn't taken. Vaginal sex can result in serious injury if care isn't taken.

if you don't see consensual PIV sex as completely different to hurting people or being hurt then you need to really analyse your views. Do you really feel that way?

Why do you only see PIV sex as the norm?

Did Bernard get an answer from hooves about why the law is not applied consistently?... thought not....

Why are you so hung up on what other people do in private? If it is legal and everyone consents then why is it any of your business?

'Consent', as with 'like' is an interesting concept.......Many of us consent to things we don't like or which cause us misery/suffering/ anguish in our daily lives - through failure to take steps to end that 'thing', or because we are so used to that 'thing' that it seems somehow inevitable...or exceedingly difficult to extract ourself from.

What do you make of the recent and growing cases of women killed during so called 'consensual' acts of choking or strangulation?
The most recent, highly publicised case, involves Grace Spillane: a young back-packer killed in New Zealand and her body buried in a suitcase. The defendant says it was a consensual activity.

Injecting heroine is usually consensual too, should we legalise that?

I think there is a case to be made for legalising all drugs. Prohibition rarely works and seldom protects the people that it purports to be in place for.

Extreme acts that could result in serious injury I am sure would be covered by the law

was your exact wording Hooves

anal sex could (and does with reasonable frequency) result in serious injury

but if you;ve changed your mind about that,. that's fine

Did Bernard get an answer from hooves about why the law is not applied consistently?... thought not....

How do I know why? I'm not the CPS, or the juries or the judiciary. It should be applied consistently. I can't answer for why it isn't.

Why do you only see PIV sex as the norm?

where did I say that? It was an example of one of the many chandelier swinging sex acts I participate in that don't involve hurting people or being hurt

Humans are a violent species. I'm just not sure it's something we should be uncritically embracing

That's my take too. Degradation and abuse may well be part of everyday life, but I have always had higher aspirations for humanity. Can't believe any child comes into this world with an instinct to be hurt or brutalised.

How do I know why? I'm not the CPS, or the juries or the judiciary. It should be applied consistently. I can't answer for why it isn't

do you think the 'what people do in the bedroom is private and we should let them get on with it unless you're a missionary position prude' stuff could have anything to do with it?

just a thought

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly

You're just being goady though aren't you.

As you can see from my words, that you quoted and selectively highlighted, I said

Extreme acts that could result in serious injury I am sure would be covered by the law.

I.dont consider anal sex to be anymore extreme than PIV sex. So no, I'm not be inconsistent nor have I changed my mind.