Marks and Spencer have fallen, part III; we’re gonna need a bigger boat

[MrsSnippyPants]

Fresh thread in case part 2 fills up overnight.
I am yet to receive a reply to my third email, have been furiously tweeting, and as am now pursuing the options available to me as a shareholder.
Still crossing fingers for John Lewis!

One the one hand, men have more money. On the other hand, if one man buys 100 pairs of knickers and 1000 women buy one pair each you're better off with the latter. So the question is how many male knicker buyer there are (and if they all plan to build extensions for their lingerie purchases).

I'm picturing something like a hoarder's house, but with painfully tacky scanties that probably don't fit the owner anyway.

Having a debate with someone - any chance anyone has examples of abuse, hidden cameras etc in UK changing rooms recently?

I know about the 46 year old changing the women's toilet sign the other day...

I need specific changing rooms, ideally retailers and not gyms...

www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/cctv-released-after-man-exposed-14449259

www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Chester-County-Man-Target-Stores-Montgomery-County-Holes-Drilling-Child-Pornography-Charges-511088221.html

There are many websites but one that apparently specialises in secretly filmed women - voyeurstyle.com. It's gross. Warning you.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6796451/Surrey-father-two-jailed-posting-46-upskirt-videos-London-Underground-adult-website.html

No, M&S, this story isn't going to slip quietly away (see comments)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/marks-spencer-poaches-tesco-boss-in-bid-to-revive-its-flagging-fashion-arm-mv6w95lst?shareToken=896b476c645b53542d9c2a1972e65391

Some great comments on that article.

Loving Briz on the comments, raising awareness as some readers clearly not aware of the change in policy.

Bid to revive its flagging fashion arm?

There will be plenty of unflagging arms reviving something after a fashion in the changing rooms...

@numberstation. Pffnarrf

Most women don’t know about the changing rooms so m&s may yet succeed. My mother really doesn’t get why I’m boycotting them at all. She fully comprehends she could be changing next to a male and is definitely gender critical. I think it is possibly because she’s never been in such sticky situations as me. In any case, I despair.

The whole point of exemptions in the Equality Act (for any characteristic) is to PERMIT discrimination.

There seems to be an idea that all discrimination is a bad thing and unlawful. It isn't.

Well done coatandhat - we need to follow your example.

There are more of us than there are M&S stores so if every store experiences women going in to speak to the manager about changing room policy, that noise has to filter back to Head Office.

So it’s gone quiet in this. They and JL (and all the other stores - even ladies knicker shops) are refusing to engage on the subject at all and think Christmas fluff (sorry but a stuffed toy won’t do it, and the M&S ads make it look like the jumpers have fleas) will distract everyone.

What do we do? Are they breaking the law by having mixed sex changing areas and not actually implicitly telling people?

Well today I didn't spend about £120 in JL.

Money I was intending/needing to spend (needed to replace a couple of things) and would have normally spent in JL, and I just chose to go elsewhere. This could add up.

What a shame The Sun article didn’t simply say “men trying on bras”. The language is too woolly for The Sun’s audience as some “transgender and non-binary people” will actually be female.

Their changing rooms just say 'fitting rooms' which, by omission, might already be deemed to indicate mixed sex.

Realistically, this isn't going to change until there are incidents, I'm afraid.

M&S have brought in a bloke from Tesco's (F&F) /BHS to sort things out, so they're probably already doomed in the medium term to becoming an expensive ready meal supplier. I'm out.

I have been a loyal Marks and Spencer customer since my mum took me for my first bra at 13, I typically buy all my Christmas presents plus cards, wrap etc from there. I haven't bought a single item since this started, I am buying elsewhere and it's quite liberating. I was feeling uncomfortable last year with all their plastic glitter and non recyclable paper anyway. Just bought a pack of knickers from Tesco and they seem much the same as I got in Mark's. I can't imagine going back there now.

I am in the process of selling my mums flat, and need to repaint, carpet and replace curtains before it goes on the market. The is a large John Lewis Home round the corner, a natural place to source neutral midrange carpets and curtains. Instead I will look for equivalents and sort out an independent fitter. Not something I really want to do 100 miles from home, with only a portion of sale proceeds accruing to me. But hey....JL don't care about women so why should I care about them.

I haven’t either, nor JL (to add to Always etc) and yes, it is liberating to fine new and better suppliers rather than the old ‘regular’ ones that you don’t even think about.

I'm not certain a boycott will work - and it will certainly take months to see any evidence. BUT - as Daysofpearlyspencer pointed out, it's actually quite liberating to shop elsewhere. Showed me how lazy I had become and certainly it's a relief not to import all their shrink wrapped plastic fruit and veg home.
Just as I have chosen to boycott other companies over the years, boycotting M & S because of their vile attitude towards their women customers safety and privacy is a little hill that I'll die on. Being a woman and watching our rights being removed and handed over to men makes me feel very powerless - so this takes back just a little power.

Uncompromisingwomen and it takes some money back! Usually get M&S turkey but I’m now going to my local farm shop and it’s cheaper!

Christmas is around the corner and they are reliant on good food, clothing and gods sales (as well as new year spending). So and mass boycott will be evident fairly soon.

Absolutely uncompromisingwoman
My at best £500 a year spend wont bankrupt them. But I feel better for refusing to spend any money there or JL. Or in fact in any shop that just let's men in. It's not even just for the shoppers, it's the workers forced to play a part in a mans fetish. Unknowingly.
So my modus operandi now is to visit a shop, any shop. Gather things I want to try on. Take to fitting room, have the conversation about men in change rooms. Decide to not take the chance and leave my stuff there. I dont go mental and pick 27 items, just 3 or 4. I'm not making loads more work for staff.
I at least have the conversation, make the workers and other women aware.
It's all I can do.

I just make sure that other people are aware of the policy. Is it fair for women to be blissfully ignorant? No.