Marks and Spencer have fallen, part III; we’re gonna need a bigger boat

[MrsSnippyPants]

Fresh thread in case part 2 fills up overnight.
I am yet to receive a reply to my third email, have been furiously tweeting, and as am now pursuing the options available to me as a shareholder.
Still crossing fingers for John Lewis!

Marks & Suspenders do the AutoG range, no?

Ew - the stuff from the end of the last thread is sickening. So someone at M&S must know about the male fetishists targeting their underwear departments with all those creepy male reviews on their website. There has to be a fetish site somewhere that has flagged this up for all their pals to go and like every male review. I am not brave enough to try and find out by Googling that though. Not envy.

Someone questioned whether one of the models wearing knickers on the website was a man - while I think the models are still women for now they have definitely moved to using more masculine/less curvy models to show off their 'panties'. That surely isn't a coincidence.

Then as they have changed their changing room policy while knowing all this they must be aware that they are inviting these men who like to show off about wearing M&S's women's underwear into the women's changing rooms. What the hell do they think is going to happen next?

Those poor staff.

Ew, have just looked at the reviews of some ladies pants, a male saying he loves these panties.......have reported as inappropriate but this shit is all over their site.

Substitution tip needed. I want to buy biscuits for the large GP practice that cared for my late mother. I want to do this before Christmas gifts start arriving. Happy to spend £30-50. In the past I have nipped into the M&S food round the corner. Any ideas of good selections available by mail order.

@Elodie2019
I do tend to do my own thing. I have taken a number of approaches. Is it Sheffield you don't think matters specifically? Or that posting the views of retail staff about policy they have to enforce doesn't matter? Or that also speaking to management doesn't count?

Of course Jean is right to question the shop staff, she has been nothing but polite, and how else are we supposed to find out what they have been told?
It is hardly her fault if management aren’t doing their job and providing staff with information and appropriate training.
How else are we supposed to find out policy when management are clearly ignoring those if us who have tried responding via the appropriate channels.
You go Jean,, more power to you.

That's the standard scripted response @NellieEllie. I replied asking what about my comfort and how are they preventing abuse but no answer yet.

Jean
I don't know where you get the idea that I think Sheffield doesn't matter?! I'm talking about Sheffield purely on the back of the article featuring you visiting the store.I don't follow you in Twitter.

Read the posts I have written below and you'll also see that I am in favour speaking to management.

By all means speak directly to the store manager who has the power to feed back to HO but not sales staff. It's bad form. Having worked in retail I know that it's not a democracy- shop floor staff have to just do as they are told sadly.

I agree, Jean is doing nothing wrong by talking to the sales staff on the shop floor. I mean, speaking to a woman asking questions is hardly traumatic, is it? And if management aren't telling their staff about this policy then at least these few staff have had a heads up.

Compared to a load of verbal abuse from an "It's Ma'am!" style TRA, or worse, a J. Yaniv type perve giggling away, asking for a bra fitting and taking selfies which just happen to have teen girls in the background, I'd say a few questions from a feminist is pretty good really.

@Elodie2019

If management ignore you ... then what?

Have you spoken to management?

Was I wrong to go and inspect policy at its point of administration? I did it with utter politeness and what I'm trying to say to you about your assertion that I was wrong to visit stores is ... that shop floor staff and their views DO matter and the effect is not always "trickle down" unless you believe workers are utterly without a voice against their employers?

What else is there to do.

Emails tweets comments etc are ignored

Newspapers are more concerned with misgendering

No ones prepared to debate on the radio they refuse to come on and speak to a woman with a different opinion

Shop staff are the literally the only way in now.

I've emailed management and not had a response. What else do we do?

@Jeanhatchet I think you are doing a brilliant job. I was in meadowhell at the weekend and had a nice chat with a customer about it who has joined the boycott.

Needmoresleep

Fortnum and Mason www.fortnumandmason.com/t/categories/biscuits/all

that shop floor staff and their views DO matter and the effect is not always "trickle down" unless you believe workers are utterly without a voice against their employers?

Precisely, Jean. You're not highlighting poor service by individuals or trying to get them sanctioned (hello, genderists - that's wankstain, classist behaviour, by the way and you should stop it) - you're trying to ascertain how they've been trained and how they feel about policy.

Jean: what I'm trying to say to you about your assertion that I was wrong to visit stores is ...

I have made no 'assertion' of the kind!

Once again... (Cut and paste from my post) By all means speak directly to the store manager who has the power to feed back to HO

Yes, I have spoken to store managers about all sorts of issues.

Yes, you are right to challenge retailers in store (see copy and paste again from previous post).

I don't think it's fitting to directly challenge floor staff on issues like this. They may agree with you but they can't voice that agreement if it goes against company policy.

I believe they they are not allowed to have a voice in this scenario.
Store managers on the other hand have got a voice.

Yes, I have worked in retail.

I've emailed management and not had a response. What else do we do?

You, I, along with everyone on here/twitter-keep e-mailing, contacting the press, complaining in-store to retail managers

I think it's imperative that we all speak to shop floor staff. M&S clearly have a staff communication problem (or they want to play these things down/keep it secret) since from just our posts you can see that shop floor staff aren't aware of this. Perhaps if more of them are aware they will start, en masse, speaking management and telling them it isn't on. I have to say I would be sacked if I worked for them because I would refuse to fit a man with a bra and would refuse any man (however they are dressed) access to the womens fitting room.

In my view M&S are trying to play this down and think/hope that their customers (mainly older women) will just shut up and get on with it. I think a lot of women won't speak out and challenge, they don't want to be seen to make a fuss. Causing a bit of chaos - using mens fittings rooms (afterall it's confirmed that's all ok), boycotting and spreading the message are things that need to be continued.

But everyone has done that. Multiple emails to different addresses all either ignored or a cut and paste reply that addresses none of the issues whatsoever.

You can see yourself that every tweet that didnt tell them how amazing their stupid jumper ad was is ignored. And let's not forget that alot of the tweets are hidden . You have to click on view to read.

Isn't the reverse also true?

How many M&S staff know what the policy says, are deeply uncomfortable with it but do not feel able to challenge it? They might be quite relieved that it's finally getting attention from their core customer base and it is entirely legitimate - indeed, responsible - behaviour to pass up the line the complaints and objections they are hearing from customers now.

I can't be the only person to have used "client dissatisfaction" as a tool to dislodge a policy I was unhappy with in the workplace.

Many years back, when talk about unixes changing rooms and toilets was starting, I assumed there was going to be unisex option as an ADDITION to male and female.

I'm still waiting for my follow-up response from John Lewis. I emailed the MD Paula Nickolds yesterday to ask about their policy and had a response from a Director Relations case manager who said she would look into it for me and would be in touch.

I haven't had any response from my email to Stuart Rose, chairman of Ocado.

There is often queue to use marks changing room, NEVER seen one for the men’s. Maybe when men have start joining long queue they will start complaining. And immediately get listening to of course.

Placemarking. I've still been waffling away on the old thread

This is nothing about transgender is it.

This is all about dismantling barriers to protect women and children. Girls get used to having strange men in close proximity. This reduces their sense of a right to privacy and their right to say no.

The on line lingerie comments make clear. M&S know what they are doing. They know the problems. They don't care.

All this stuff - this & the Samaritans stuff - and even the NSPCC & CBBC stuff - if we join the dots, it's all a massive escalation in male predatory behaviour against women and children.

yes, yes it is. This is the end goal.