Marks and Spencer have fallen, part III; we’re gonna need a bigger boat

[MrsSnippyPants]

Fresh thread in case part 2 fills up overnight.
I am yet to receive a reply to my third email, have been furiously tweeting, and as am now pursuing the options available to me as a shareholder.
Still crossing fingers for John Lewis!

It's not even just for the shoppers, it's the workers forced to play a part in a mans fetish. Unknowingly.

That's the bit I find REALLY unforgivable.

Anyone new to the concept of an autogynephile fetishist might like to read this:

Abby Stein: how the Becoming Eve author went from rabbi to trans woman

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/abby-stein-how-the-becoming-eve-author-went-from-rabbi-to-trans-woman-k3fpxw8cg?shareToken=9c9cf32697b8437616d6c477df2252bf

BOOK EXTRACT
‘I loved my wife – but I also wanted to be her’

I loved my wife Fraidy’s clothes, her colourful underwear and pink nightgowns, her cute black and navy shoes, and her beautiful black dresses. I loved her perfume, the smell of it, how it made me feel, and the pretty crystal bottle it came in. I envied her jewellery – the pearl necklace, the gold-and-diamond watch and the white-gold bracelets. I used her shampoos and deodorant, and I secretly even wore her underwear a few times.

I loved Fraidy, and I wanted to be with her. But I also wanted to be her. Not her, exactly, but I wanted to be the woman – I wanted to be the wife.

As recommended by the M&S staff at my local store on Friday, I've just had a long conversation with Customer Services. First of all I spoke to a man who sounded surprised and unaware of the male reviews of women's underwear and also the changing room policy. He gave me an email address different from those I had tried before - in case anyone wants to try this one -

[email protected]

He then transferred me to a member of the Executive Team. We talked about the male underwear reviews and I suggested that if M&S wanted to retain the inappropriate reviews that have been reported, then perhaps there should be a separate section for those who like to indulge in the fetish and that M&S were gaining the wrong kind of reputation.

I said that I had already emailed them about the mixed changing rooms and received the template reply. I raised safeguarding and only acting after inappropriate behaviour by which point the damage has been done and asked whether the policy had been introduced as a result of such behaviour in the men's changing rooms. She said M&S was not prepared to give out that information. Almost in passing she mentioned that the policy had been in place for around a year as if that made it acceptable and I remarked that the very, very least they could do was to sign the fitting rooms as mixed so that people are able to decide for themselves whether to take the risk because for example, DH would not want to use a mixed changing room. She picked up on that and said that would definitely be passed on - how sad that this should make a difference.

The whole call lasted 30 minutes and I commented that it was emotionally tiring to have to do this and she sympathised because she thought I was referring to DD's experience of voyeurism but I made it clear that it wasn't that but the need to protest against such policies and the erosion of women's rights. She did urge me not to give up, so, again, it seems that staff have a view but are not allowed their say. I was assured that this was the highest point I could go to and that my comments had been recorded and would be seen by the Board.

Coatandhat

Excellent. Well done.

I second that

Well done

Well done, @Coatandhat, I can imagine how emotionally exhausting that must have been.

I've been inspired to call Customer Services myself. I'm currently on hold, but when I first called and the automated system asked me what I wanted to talk to, when I said 'changing rooms', I got an automated message and then cut off, so I then started by saying I was wanting to complain, and got a real person who said she couldn't do anything about it: so I'm waiting to talk to someone who can (in theory).

Aw. Thank you ladies. Just a small contribution. @Searabbit - I just said "Complaint" when the system asked what I wanted to talk about.

Flipping heck. So angry about all this- have been boycotting M&S since I heard about this a couple of weeks ago. Now I don’t want to shop with Bravissimo either- I’m gutted as I only discovered them earlier in the year, and I’ve spent a lot of money with them in that year- they’ve been a revelation for me. But I will be worried about using their changing rooms now, so I won’t risk it

Thank you coatandhat. Good luck searabbit.

Just wanted to say thanks from me Coat you are doing this for all women really, even those who are accepting of this change in policy. The signage for me is really important. I'll also email when I can.

Well… I got through to the online helpdesk, and was eventually told by a woman with a very strong foreign accent and mode of speaking (calling me "Mam") that she would transfer me over – but that then got back to the first switchboard and then back to the online complaints section again. I was then kept on hold listening to irritating music for a long time, and then, the music stopped but I was still connected to their telephone number.

I tried again several times, and only got to a real person when I replied 'question' and 'question' to the reason for my call. She claimed not to know the situation and agreed it was unacceptable.

After several further calls, and having to insist I spoke to a real manager, I got though to poor misguided Lani, who told me that they were wanting to 'admit other sexes' and when asked what those were, as I thought there were just male and female sexes he said 'bisexes'...

I'm passing the baton on, now. They insist on knowing one's full name, too. Chilling.

Bisexes.

to you all

Give a name like Dave Smith and see what they say. I once spent 3 hours on the phone to Tesco on a complaint and had a 3-day phone tag argument with our old management company.

When I have time I can be rather persistent.

Can't a lawyer write to them asking about their understanding of the Equality Act? What about Consumer rights? They have brought in a policy without consulting their customers or a counterbalance to the (I assume) agency who advised them. This same policy has been shown to cause serious issues in the US (see Target) and will open them up to law suits surely?

Bisexes

Dear god, who have they outsourced their customer service line to?

@SeaRabbit I was asked for first line of my address and email or mobile number. I also questioned this and was given an answer that I really couldn't understand and the poor chap in the end just said it was policy when they transfer calls to other departments. I gave it because I didn't want to not be put through. By the time I spoke to the Executive Team member she was able to address me by my name.

I like your suggestion of Dave Smith @LordProf

@TheProdigalKittensReturn - that is a very good point. My impression is that the first two people I spoke to weren't in England but the Executive Team was - which would explain why the man was not aware of the M&S policies and was rather taken aback.

Well done CoatandHat. I've also written again in response to a "you've cancelled your standing order??" letter. Tumbleweed is the response.

I'm telling everyone I know and spreading the word about the risks to women if they use their changing rooms.

Bisexes?

I’m bifed up.

What kind of actual nonsense word is that?

Like PC Gull's garbled nonsense about 'sometimes a female brain grows male parts I learned it on a course'.

These poor people have no idea what they're talking about, they're trying valiantly to recycle incoherent info that makes no sense with a vocabulary most people have never heard of and don't understand (and the meaning of it shifts about weekly anyway), and are representing a policy even they can't make sense of. And don't agree with.

How come they can keep using the we’ve been doing it for ages excuse and look everything is fine. They would have never allowed a Man who looks like a man to walk in before. If they can’t engage on that level I don’t know where you start.

I wonder if PC Gil is still a police folk or has left the service...

Gul bit Gil...

Not not bit!!🤪