Marks and Spencer have fallen, part III; we’re gonna need a bigger boat

[MrsSnippyPants]

Fresh thread in case part 2 fills up overnight.
I am yet to receive a reply to my third email, have been furiously tweeting, and as am now pursuing the options available to me as a shareholder.
Still crossing fingers for John Lewis!

I agree, and I did wonder about that although the woman in lingerie sounded very self - assured.

Two things she said were "If they're buying undies for their wives and girlfriends they don't need to try them on, do they?" and " We don't want any dirty men in with the ladies".

I suspect she is near retirement age and cares more about the customers than her job although that luxury won't apply to many staff.

Oh dear I had to laugh. M&S have now enraged all eco warriors by adding a video(yes a video) to their Xmas advert in the Metro. Useless prats.

How can you add a video to a paper?

One fucking tweet from one advert in one paper and they have responded. But not to all the tweets from women. Because women aren’t important.

According to Joani Walsh’s twitter, Bravissimo has fallen. I’m gutted. My huge breasts are even more gutted. Where are we going to get our scaffolding from now?

Joani Walsh:

t.co/cdXb7ZpnIx Plus Primark, Urban Outfitters, Topshop, Topman, Evans, Wallis, MissSelfridge, Burton, River Island, Debenhams. French Connection and Zara refused to answer. The Gap and Next didn't reply. Laura Ashley welcomes all; it sells only women's clothing.

twitter.com/joaniwalshi/status/1197292224918278145?s=19

Thank fuck I already buy 95% of my clothes from charity shops and eBay. I’m going to have to go to someone who sells online only for my lingerie and tights.

The sad thing is, the staff will have had a picture painted for them of poor tortured souls suffering with gender dysphoria, while the people doing the painting are generally...not, and the perves who will be reacting with glee in the greatest numbers are definitely not.

Every single shop will go this way as it's easier to dismiss sex-based rights than self-i.d. and TAs. I can't see any way to tackle it beyond disruption, stickering, using the men's, complaining tangibly about doors/curtains/behaviour etc, all the ideas shared here etc. I don't envisage a single shop managing to handle this in a way that works for everyone, and as with the entire universe, transwomen's rights trump women's rights for no apparent reason. I do however get why shops don't want their low-paid staff to have to argue the toss with aggressive transwomen making a fuss. It would be unmanageable and expose staff to impossible accusations and litigation. Big sigh. Women getting together to take these actions would have more impact than individuals of course... So deeply frustrating. Well done those who've tried to take action in the shops.

Bravissimo ! That stupid comment “we welcome trans and non binary people but men are not allowed in “ So a male who says he is the nonsense term “non binary” can have a bra fitting ? Or any man identifying as trans, which under Stonewall now means basically everyone ? But not a “MAN” ? It is insane.

Bravissimo specialize in customers with a narrow back and big boobs. What possible legitimate use could the, um, let's just say market in question have for their products?

I am rueing the day the GRA came in. It should have been worded in such a watertight way that this sort of situation would not arise. We should never have allowed the legal fiction of taking womanhood as an identity. I also think what Stonewall has done under Ruth is evil.
You would think a shop selling bras for larger breasted women would easily be able to invoke the equality act, but they are so afraid of litigation I think, that they would rather appease one person insisting they are “non binary” and therefore allowed in, than look after their thousands of female customers by giving them a single sex space.
Basically the cross dressing fetishists have been given the freedom of all women’s spaces, along with any woman hating beardy bloke who calls himself non binary.

What large breasted woman, with a lifetime of experience in the reactions that generally proves from heterosexual males, is going to want to go for a bra fitting in a shop where heterosexual males are allowed in as long as their "gender identity" is anything other than "cis"? Non binary can mean just about anything. You'd be hard pressed to find a male pop star from the 80s who didn't qualify.

Oh no, I'm devastated about bravissimo. What about rigby and pillar?

I wonder if technology means we’ll soon be able have virtual replications of ourselves online so we don’t need to go into stores to fit everything on anyway?
Maybe they’re all waiting for the backlash from women being perved on before they take any action- too cowardly to actually stand up for women’s rights.

I've emailed rigby and peller. Will report back.

How can we boycott when it's every shop?

These policies are bloody awful for their staff too, who presumably didn't sign up with the understanding that they were to be expected to fit bras to male individuals who in many cases will be aroused by the process. Is it a case of a few woke idiots at HQ is all it takes to impose an idiotic policy on the stores?

Ms Pankhurst and your brave sisters?

Sorry. It looks as though your achievements were but temporary.

I buy all my bras from Poland, but swimwear from Bravissimo.
What are they all afraid of, surely single sex is proportionate in this instance ?

I think perhaps that men may rise up - when women everywhere have the saggiest bosoms known in Christendom because they can’t get bras fitted safely anymore.

Only then will things change. And Of course it will be on the word of men.

These policies are bloody awful for their staff too, who presumably didn't sign up with the understanding that they were to be expected to fit bras to male individuals who in many cases will be aroused by the process.

This is one of the most disturbing aspects imo. Obliging their staff to participate in a male sexual fetish. Not that far removed from the Yaniv case, I'd say.

I’m not surprised but the policy will vary so much on the shop. We know Bravissimo have smaller rooms and lots of staff and will easily spot and react to any behaviour. But ye old marks with maybe one member of staff who may or not been around, totally different (no pun indeed) ball game.

I guess the problem with Bravissimo is they don’t have any male changing rooms. The changing rooms should be single sex but I am not sure that can extend to the whole shop or who can purchase items for themselves. These shops then need a separate mixed sex changing room. You still have the problem of men getting kicks from requiring female staff to fit them though.

I would imagine that they've all been discreetly dealing with male bra fitting for years. However these recent public welcome mats are likely to make it much more prevalent. Maybe they think the potential of increased sales is worth it? They might have to be more concerned about the male who turns up for his weekly turn on but doesn't buy or the incel getting a thrill about obliging a female to touch him. In the end the staff will have to decide if they're happy with this, I suppose, and vote with their feet if not.

can't see any way to tackle it beyond disruption, stickering, using the men's, complaining tangibly about doors/curtains/behaviour etc, all the ideas shared here etc
This

I'm concerned about hidden cameras if males are allowed in bravissimo. The staff leave you for a long time, plenty for someone nefarious to set one up.