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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Marks and Spencer have fallen, part III; we’re gonna need a bigger boat

812 replies

MrsSnippyPants · 12/11/2019 00:47

Fresh thread in case part 2 fills up overnight.
I am yet to receive a reply to my third email, have been furiously tweeting, and as am now pursuing the options available to me as a shareholder.
Still crossing fingers for John Lewis!

OP posts:
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27
Catsfriend · 18/11/2019 14:21

Mentioned in passing this weekend to an older family member that M&S women’s changing rooms were now open to everyone. She was almost apoplectic with rage. Reads the Times and the Fail. Somehow this valuable information had slipped under her radar. I think she’ll be ordering online from now on.

Dangerfloof · 18/11/2019 15:48

Well. I've been and done my bit in Mark's suspenders.
Jeez the mens change is hard to find. I wandered around for actual minutes. So I just walked in with three bras and a silk slip. The female attendant said
Scuse me this is the mens. I said I think you will find they are mixed sex.
She urmmed and said oh ok then.
I went in a cubicle >>>see pics
Took pics, read paper and as an actual real man came in, I walked out with the scanties. Look on his face, priceless.
Pics show largeish gaps at top of cubicle and right under the door.

Marks and Spencer have fallen, part III; we’re gonna need a bigger boat
Marks and Spencer have fallen, part III; we’re gonna need a bigger boat
nameanotheruser · 18/11/2019 16:09

Just dropping by to say that I have learnt so much from Feminism chat and have started the process to remove my 10k savings from an M&S bank account.

CriticalCondition · 18/11/2019 16:19

All the loo blocks in his halls are mixed sex/'gender neutral'.

It was the same for my DC. At a super woke uni. And guess what? Without anyone saying anything, within the first couple of days the mixed sex corridor treated them as single sex facilities. So the women used one lot and the men used the other.

Justabaker · 18/11/2019 16:20

Needed a few groceries today. Drove past M&S, drove past Waitrose and went to my locally owned garden centre where they have a butcher, baker and general food hall. Boycotting Waitrose is going to be difficult but I am persuaded it must be done.

Our fresh food normally comes from Abel & Cole, a local butcher and a local fishmonger. I bake all our bread etc. Plus I grow vegetables.

I'm wondering if the lawn is large enough for a sheep.

Redshoeblueshoe · 18/11/2019 16:30

Excellent work Danger Gin

OnlyTheTitOfTheIceberg · 18/11/2019 16:42

Brilliant email parsnips.

My own email with a list of specific questions, which now languishes on the original thread because it's so long since I sent it to them, alas goes unanswered. I have emailed twice more asking for a response. I have been forced in my latest chase-up to threaten the named individual on the email with raising a complaint against them on the grounds of substandard customer service if they don't reply by the end of this week.

Oh, and I've peak-M&S-ed my mum who would normally buy my and my DH's birthday and Christmas presents from there, and she's telling both my aunt and my godmother (who would both ditto) not to buy from them either. So that's five members of one family alone who are all boycotting them. Good work M&S, well done.

I needed a new winter hat today, normally M&S would be my go-to - not least because they're right next to the bus stop where I get off for work. Instead I'm very happy with my lovely new woolly hat from Accessorise.

Akire · 18/11/2019 16:51

Good work Danger are the men’s different to the ladies in height or is that standard in that store?

PiedImperial · 18/11/2019 16:53

Well done @Dangerfloof !!

Hopefully the actual man will complain (and will be listened to...)

Dangerfloof · 18/11/2019 17:02

It's a standard across that m and s. It's the only one I've been to so far though. And I've got 3 more to do this in.
It will take a few days. I went on my own. Shaking in case I was like arrested or something. Am at another on Thursday this week then the last two I dunno, honestly hoping it will be a weekend before Christmas and bloody busy. I will whistle while in the queue with me scanties.

SingingLily · 18/11/2019 18:33

Loitered outside an M&S shop with a now peak-M&Sed friend today and chatted loudly about why we were boycotting it. I have no idea if it had any impact there but it did in the Denby shop across the road. The woman behind the till was horrified - and so was the man behind me in the queue.

I'm distraught about John Lewis though. It's in today's Daily Mail (thank you, Jeanhatchet) and the article also highlights M&S.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 18/11/2019 22:04

It was the same for my DC. At a super woke uni. And guess what? Without anyone saying anything, within the first couple of days the mixed sex corridor treated them as single sex facilities. So the women used one lot and the men used the other.

Isn't that interesting in that we're constantly told that it's just because we're old farts that we aren't OK with mixed facilities?

Almost nobody is OK with mixed facilities. People don't like it. Why isn't "nobody likes this" a good enough reason?

Chesntoots · 19/11/2019 14:14

I'm now reading this thread, but I did rather like the last thread - after all it's not every day you find a thread with both shortbread AND walking...

Chesntoots · 19/11/2019 14:14

Not walking - wanking!!!!!

Terfykins · 19/11/2019 14:40

I did a recce in M&S Hastings this morning. I went into the, what everyone up till now will have thought of and probably still does, men’s changing room - at the end of the shop where the men’s clothes are, with a huge photo of a man on the wall that hits you in the eye while you’re still well outside, and with black and white pics of men covering the cubicle doors. Then I went into the, ditto, ladies’. All among the women’s underwear, torso mannequin wearing bra and knickers facing the door, sign saying ‘millions of women in Britain are wearing the wrong size bra’, and moderately sultry pics of women on the doors. I saw no difference between the cubicle layouts: both formerly-men’s and formerly- women’s had doors with gaps at the bottom, benches you could stand on to look over into the next cubicle, and disabled cubicles at the end with curtains, not doors.

I went back into the men’s to check about the disabled cubicle, as I hadn’t noted it properly the first time.

There were no staff and no customers in either. Each was signed simply ‘Fitting Room’.

Then I spoke to three female members of staff who were standing together, emphasising several times that I knew they weren’t responsible for the policy, and listing all the reasons why it was bad for women. And why it was deceptive, when the two fitting rooms were so obviously still ‘sexed’ in every way except for the verbal signs ouside.

I don’t want to get anyone in trouble, so I’ll just say that their attitudes seemed to vary.

I did ask if they’d been given extra training after this policy had been revealed. One of them told me they’d been given ‘a piece of paper telling us what to say’.

NumbersStation · 19/11/2019 15:00

I’m half inclined to give M&S staff business cards to hand out whenever people question this decision.

Saying they big boy did it and ran away’

Which they have done, leaving those left there to deal with it.

Jojoanna · 19/11/2019 15:07

I spoke to the manager in M&S she assured me men would not be admitted into the lingerie changing rooms. When I said but your policy has changed she said it was a grey area and men would not be allowed in most cases. I was very polite and she seemed uncomfortable and said the changing room was monitored at all times and unacceptable behaviour would not be tolerated. The cubicles all locked but where open at the top.

TheChampagneGalop · 19/11/2019 15:24

they’d been given ‘a piece of paper telling us what to say
To who? To complaining customers or ones being inappropriate?

SirVixofVixHall · 19/11/2019 16:00

The changing room is certainly NOT “Monitored at all times” in my local branch. Even if that were true it is hardly the point.

NumbersStation · 19/11/2019 16:48

I’d laugh at that if it wasn’t so tragic.

Monitored my gusset.

They spout any old pish. Angry

YourOpinionIsNoted · 19/11/2019 18:38

It's pointless, but I am currently enjoying reporting all m&s and John Lewis ads on my Facebook as inappropriate.

SirVixofVixHall · 19/11/2019 18:56

The only way you would be monitored at all times in my branch is if some horrible pervy bloke put a camera up.

NumbersStation · 19/11/2019 19:39

I think they would be quick enough to monitor at all times if they thought you were making off with a pair of pants.

Making out on a pair of pants? Not so much...

AdaFromYorkshire · 19/11/2019 22:26

I was in an M&S today. Not my usual one (and I shall still use their toilets as they are clean and convenient) but about 50 miles away. It was actually quite interesting.

I picked up a couple of bras and a pair of pyjamas, and headed for the lingerie fitting room. There was a female member of staff by the entrance so I asked her politely where the single sex fitting rooms were, expecting the gender neutral stuff to be trotted out. To cut a long conversation short, she said that no men would be allowed in at all, and any who tried would be sent to "the gents" . When I mentioned the mixed gender policy she said that the men at head office were always coming up with "daft ideas" and they mostly ignored them. I nearly asked if she ever felt vulnerable, but she had the attitude, demeanour and build which suggested that actually the men might be the vulnerable ones.

I then spent a bit of time hovering round the trousers and jerseys, watching the entrance to the other fitting room on the women's wear floor. It was staffed by two women and I only saw women going in. One man was carrying a couple of dresses for his wife and I'm sure he was entirely innocent but he was pleasantly and firmly told to sit in one of the armchairs just outside the fitting room to wait for his wife who could come out to show him if she wanted.

I wonder how common that is. Head office policy is one thing but the staff on the shop floor may be deciding for themselves what is common sense. This shop is in a fairly small city and I guess they know what their regular and core customers want and expect.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 19/11/2019 23:08

As heartily as I approve of the women working in the shop Ada went into the problem is that they're open to disciplinary action from the idiots in head office if some angry genderist reports them. Wouldn't it be lovely if the head office actually listened to the people expected to enforce their stupid policies?