Why would a feminist vote conservative?

[Littlelamp456]

Pondering this today with the upcoming election. Many of my friends who consider themselves feminists but very openly supporting conservatives...
With the current levels of austerity, rape clauses in tax credits and universal credit falling directly on women’s shoulders, police cuts are undoubtedly bad for women, the women left in terrible situations because of the state pension age rises, scrapping nursing bursaries, the benefit cap, legal aid!...
I know Corbyn has many issues but poor women are literally dying and forced into sex work under a Tory government, children are going hungry, women can’t get sufficient police or medical support and legal aid. I feel Poor women are being hung out to dry.

I know there’s the current ‘trans debate’ but I still don’t understand how women could think a conservative government could be better for women overall?

I really want to understand this. So if you’re a feminist and vote/planning to vote Tory, can you tell me why?

But labour see sex work as work and are a bit sketchy on the definition of the word woman.

They are all as bad as each other (at least the tories have had 2 woman PMs - ignoring the fact they were both shafted)

If woman becomes a meaningless word (Corbyn, Swinson et al) then how can these poor women be identified and helped? Women are a sex class and have to be identified as such.

Well, we can’t vote Lib Dem. They’ve explicitly said they don’t want us to.

I think it's because all of the other parties want to bring in self ID, which would mean that we would literally have no safe spaces at all in public. If we had to go to a refuge, it could be full of abusive men. If we go to the swimming pool, we'll have to strip off and shower next to men. When we get a smear test, it could be done by a man and we wouldn't be allowed to request a woman because 'that man is a woman because he says so.' If we have to get a train late at night, we'd have to share the train toilets with men etc etc Zero safety, nowhere to hide, boundaries violated and if we protest it's a hate crime.

I'm also not convinced life would get much better for women with the other parties in power, since they have shown such massive contempt for us by committing to remove our sex based rights.

I agree with all you've said about the Tory party though. I couldn't bring myself to vote for them.

It's basically like going from the frying pan into the fire, where we are currently in the frying pan. That's how I see it anyway.

What’s the use in being able to identify a women if you’re not going to use that understanding to help them though?

As far as economic issues, I suspect that women who consider themselves feminists may differ as much as any other group about what types of economies are best for people, including women, in big picture terms.

Because women also have opinions on economics, are business-owners or compnay directors, are pensioners or lawyers, have sons and husbands and brothers. There is a lot more to the vote than just one issue and most women weigh up the pros and cons.

Unfortunately there is not a great choice for anyone in this election.

rape clauses in tax credits

I don't really get this. There is a 2 child limit which doesn't seem particularly unreasonable to me but if you end up pregnant as a result of rape then you can report it to a third party (eg Women's Aid, rape crisis) and they will pass that onto DWP. You don't have to convince DWP of it. There doesn't need to be a rape conviction or anything. I've yet to hear anyone complain about how it works in practice - just scaremongering and point scoring.

Never voted Tory and probably will never, but this argument always seemed disingenuous to me.

What’s the use in being able to identify a women if you’re not going to use that understanding to help them though?

How can you help them if you can't identify them.

Well women can damn sure never be helped if we cannot be identified/organise.

I am not saying that the Tories are that much better on this one issue but I have become shocked and disgusted by the Left's attitude to women - I left the LP and will never vote for them again.

I just don’t see how any women who cares about other women could vote in a way that has and will continue to openly and hugely negatively impact the most vulnerable women in our society.

I’m not saying they don’t care, I’m sure they do. I just don’t quite understand it.

x -post zebra

Where do you think Labour will get the money from properly to fund policing, benefits, legal aid etc?

Today’s austerity measures are a direct result of a labour government’s reckless spending. UK state indebtedness soared from £323bn to £617bn under Blair and Brown — a disgraceful record during a time of relatively fast growth. So rather than having a financial buffer when the credit crunch hit, there was a huge black hole. Cuts in public funding were unavoidable as a direct result.

I will be voting Lib Dem to keep the SNP out. If the Conservatives had the chance of winning the seat I would vote Tory.

Corbyn is a dangerous idiot surrounded by dangerous neo- Marxists who aren't as stupid as he is.

Corbynism would destroy the economy, whilst of course making sure Corbyn and his Momentum cronies are fine.

And that's without getting started on the anti-Semitism, the misogyny and the crackdown on dissent.

I can't vote Tory because of universal credit.

But it's not just self ID that's a problem with Labour - see this thread and linked twitter thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3740469-Twitter-hands-Labour-its-arse-on-womens-rights

The Lib Dems have explicitly said they don't want my vote.

The Greens think I'm a "non-man."

I think the only way forward is to do as Matt Chorley in the Times suggests:
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/after-a-week-of-gaffes-and-blunders-the-empty-chair-is-getting-my-vote-v7glmjlrq

Unless of course the Monster Raving Loony Party stands in my constituency.

Do you not see how the most vulnerable women will suffer the most when woman stops meaning anything at all? Women in hostels sharing with abusive men? Women in prisons? Hospitals? Public loos?

I am hoping that there is a decent independent standing and I will vote for them.

Re; the rape clause. I've yet to hear anyone complain about how it works in practice - just scaremongering and point scoring.

Really? So you are the third child and find out your mother gets child benefit for you. How do you feel?

I don't get how any woman with any self respect or political nous can vote in this election, all the parties are as bad as each other.
Labour have been in opposition for years, where the fuck have they been? Least effective opposition in years. A cynic might say they are letting things go bad in an attempt to try to pretend they are the good guys.

I'm not saying I will vote tory btw.

But I have nobody to vote for - for the reasons Barbara has just eloquently laid out.

All I see in the Labour party at the moment is members of Momentum abusing women on twitter and FB. They don't care about women - what makes you think that they do? They will throw all women under the bus to support gender self ID.

I just don’t see how any women who cares about other women could vote in a way that has and will continue to openly and hugely negatively impact the most vulnerable women in our society.

I guess it depends on how you look at it. A vote for Labour, the Libdems and the Greens means more and more rapists being put into women's prisons, and domestic violence refuges being unable to turn away males including possibly the exes of the women already in there.

A cynic might say they are letting things go bad in an attempt to try to pretend they are the good guys

If that was their aim then they have failed spectactularly.

Ahh... the Monster Raving Loony Party. If only the adults would step back in to the room.

But under a Tory government, what are the chances they’ll be any funding for hostels at all? Women are already on the streets because they can’t get one. Or funding for officers already needed in prisons where women are being left to give birth alone, or enough hospital beds to guarantee segregate by sex?

I understand that men in women’s spaces is a huge issue and I don’t know if Labour is the answer at all, but one thing I’m pretty sure on is that the conservatives don’t really seem to care about women, particularly poor women, who are statistically more likely to end up in a hostel, prison or NHS hospital?

Will read the links, thank you.

Corbynism would destroy the economy

We currently have an economy which is built largely on financial services; one that has served only to increase disparities in wealth...and make our cities unaffordable for the majority. What we actually need is a far more mixed economy; with more manufacturing, and more small to medium sized businesses; and with far more investment in regional economies; & in the transport and infrastructure which would feed and nurture them; and which in turn would enable far greater self sufficiency.

The economy we have is also built around globalised corporations, and their ability to shift money and labour around the globe to service them.

Going forward, for the sake of the planet, and for the sake of quality of life of human beings, we need a new sort of economy - which is focused on alternative energy; green technologies; & more localised economies, which would enable citizens to earn a decent living wage. Aligned to that is decent quality and affordable housing.

The economy we have now does not work for most people.

I find it really bizarre that you think being a feminist means you have to vote Labour or Lib Dem. Why shouldn’t feminists vote Conservative? Women should vote for whomever they like. But if many women are reluctant to vote for politicians who are so eager to jump on the latest bandwagon, they are prepared to toss women under the intersectionality bus? Don’t be surprised.