Why would a feminist vote conservative?

[Littlelamp456]

Pondering this today with the upcoming election. Many of my friends who consider themselves feminists but very openly supporting conservatives...
With the current levels of austerity, rape clauses in tax credits and universal credit falling directly on women’s shoulders, police cuts are undoubtedly bad for women, the women left in terrible situations because of the state pension age rises, scrapping nursing bursaries, the benefit cap, legal aid!...
I know Corbyn has many issues but poor women are literally dying and forced into sex work under a Tory government, children are going hungry, women can’t get sufficient police or medical support and legal aid. I feel Poor women are being hung out to dry.

I know there’s the current ‘trans debate’ but I still don’t understand how women could think a conservative government could be better for women overall?

I really want to understand this. So if you’re a feminist and vote/planning to vote Tory, can you tell me why?

How do you make the distinction between which evil is the lesser

She just told you: five years or forever.

She was clear.

(Also: what she said.)

Because, in addition to being a feminist, she is a Eurosceptic top rate taxpayer who owners her own business and sends her children to private schools?

Who do I want as Ministers for Women & Equalities? Liz Truss or Dawn Butler?

That really clinches it, doesn't it? Dawn Butler is one of the stupidest politicians around.

Oh and like feminists, vegetarians, can be Conservative

Didn't say they couldn't. Just not as usual to be so, & certainly not in days gone by.

My mum voted conservative and is vegetarian! Since the 60s!

Dawn Butler is one of the stupidest politicians around

I agree. She's an idiot.

Didn't say they couldn't. Just not as usual to be so, & certainly not in days gone by

No, you didn't. I just thought it bizarre that you mentioned that your non- Tory voting circle were all vegetarian.

Brexit and austerity have had and will have greater negative impacts on women - there are several studies that make this clear. These are Tory policies/clusterf@cks. Anyone who cares about women would not be voting Johnson on Dec 12. The other options aren’t fantastic either, but I’ll be voting tactically for Labour in my constituency as the only option that can realistically keep the Tories out here. This election is so important- not sure what will happen to this country if we get five years of Johnson and co.

Justhadathought

Dawn Butler is one of the stupidest politicians around

I agree. She's an idiot

Well we agree on something !

She infuriates me at PMQ - Sitting there nodding along to every word Corbyn utters.

No, you didn't. I just thought it bizarre that you mentioned that your non- Tory voting circle were all vegetarian

No, I didn't what? This is getting a bit silly...Clearly you are offended by my being honest. You've not been short of some strong and definitive views and opinions yourself, however. As I've also said I'll be spoiling my ballot, and am moving away from political party loyalties these days.

She infuriates me at PMQ - Sitting there nodding along to every word Corbyn utters

What did it for me was her 'performance' at the select committee at which representatives from WPUK were invited. Maria Miller was awful too...as for Layla Moran.......It was so dispiriting.

barracker
That made me shiver. Thank you for articulating why this is so monumental.

self ID is the single biggest threat to women's rights because it removes them completely. Women's rights are not women's rights if males can claim them too.

This. It underpins everything.

OP, women here keep explaining their reasons very clearly to you, and you keep repeating 'but why' over and over.

@Barracker with fucking bells on! Excellently written.

OP, with the other parties there will be little chance to push back on these issues as it will just be seen as accepted. There will be less funding needed for women's shelters if they are too afraid to go, which I'm sure will make for some fantastic statistics of women (whatever they decide they are) becoming less dependent on these facilities under their leadership when in reality they just won't feel like they can access them. This will not help women at all. Consider the affect it will have for future funding, I'm sure the rate of cervix cancer will decline alongside a worrying increase in violent women. There are lots of further reaching consequences, which will have an impact on where funding goes.

Dawn Butler really scored an own goal with her recent attendance at that yacht party

We frame Conservative/Labour (or even just right/left) in pantomime black/white or good vs evil terms. It has never been that simple. What it boils down to when you get to the fundamentals is a question of liberty and equality. Both are virtues and we should aspire to increase both, and when there is no conflict we’d be mad not too. However sometimes a policy comes up where they conflict and to make things more equal for some you must reduce the liberty of others.

For me Conservatives focus more on Liberty when they conflict and Labour focus more on Equality. I can understand and respect philosophically anyone who stands for either side, as to my way of thinking BOTH positions are inherently noble. In fact I’d say it’s absolutely crucial we have plenty of people who stand for both arguing passionately for their side to keep a balance.

Tricky thing is go down the rabbit hole too far on either side and you end up in a corrupt, tyrannical and deeply dysfunctional society. We are stuck in a blender of finger pointing and playing the whose worst game. Which I point blank refuse to do. So if you are a Labour voter you have my respect for standing for Equality, and if you are a Conservative voter you have it for standing up for Liberty. The REAL opposition is apathy, and we have got to reverse that trend.

Hear hear @Dervel
I can see that you've lived a life @Justhadathought that would likely expose you to predominantly left-wing (probably an outdated term now) voters. But you illustrate my point really. If we don't try to mix with people from different social backgrounds, in different jobs/professions/ careers/Work, from different parts of the country or world then it is much more difficult to see why someone would vote differently to us. As many PPs have pointed out, often voting or taking a political stance on something is complex, difficult and requires holding ones nose to other issues in favour of one you see as most important at that time.
It may also be that you are quite open and perhaps even forthright in your political opinions, and others have stated silent which you have taken as agreement; often we don't wish to cause upset or a quarrel if we think that disagreeing politically will bring about a very strong response (the 'Tory scum' label, for example).
I wonder if the complexities of today's politics and the story of your life you've shared with us will give you food for thought to take an open minded approach to exposing yourself to the perspectives of others and widening your social circle; I doubt very much you don't know any conservative voters. Perhaps reflect on why none of your friends or acquaintances are prepared to be open with you about this? What repossessed might they get?
You might be surprised, even if they are from The Wirral

*What response might they get

Weird autocorrect

Great way of framing the issue Dervel, and articulates why I'm struggling so much with this election, not just over self ID. Because as I've said before on here self ID is the Canary in the coalmine for a wider rise in authoritarianism on the left which I think is going under the radar (partly because, trained by watching the clusterfuck that is the current US Republican administration we on the left often think of authoritarianism as a right wing problem, specially, I think, those on the left too young to remember Communist eastern Europe).

Universal credit and its consequences horrify me. But as Barracker,'s brilliant post points out; that's five years of misery. Not only self ID but the concomitant and broader attacks on free speech and political freedom which I see implicit in a lot of Labour's current behaviour (and its Antisemetism) would last a generation.

Most of the people I know don’t vote at all.

I believe in sex as the biological determination of women’s oppression under patriarchy but I think it’s throwing the baby out with the bath water to make this the biggest reason for choosing who to vote for in this election.

Women’s refuges already have men in them. This is happening under the tories. They aren’t about to stop that. If they stay in we could easily end up with no refuges at all.

I can't vote conservative for most of the reasons you've mentioned. Many of us are feeling politically homeless.
I live in a safe labour seat so my vote, or spoiled paper makes little difference to the outcome but it's no less frustrating.

I do think throwing women under a bus, whether by self Id, cutting tax credits, legal aid or by not giving a shit that rape and murder of women is legal is all the same to me. Right now all parties are as bad as each other.

Undoing unjust law is a lifetime's work. Undoing a compound injustice of law that has been enthusiastically and zealously promoted across parties will be almost impossible.

@Barracker

A superb analysis about why this isn’t some frivolous, temporary issue; despite repeated patronizing attempts to portray it as such; but an actual existential threat to women which once enshrined in law will be almost impossible to reverse.

And the truth is that if it comes to pass, it is inevitable that one or more of us here on this forum will end up imprisoned, for speaking a truth that has become illegal to speak.

This is sadly an accurate assessments of the threat to freedom of speech promoted by an increasingly totalitarian faction. As you and others have so eloquently argued, if this isn’t a time for dissent and resistance, when is? Great post Barracker

*I wonder if the complexities of today's politics and the story of your life you've shared with us will give you food for thought to take an open minded approach to exposing yourself to the perspectives of others and widening your social circle8

Oh, for goodness sake.....I'm 54 years old and have lived a very varied life in different & diverse parts of the country, and lived amongst, and associated with, a very wide range of people. I can talk to, and relate to, anyone on an everyday human level, and I do. Far more than yourself, I suspect.

Amongst the many and varied experiences in my life - I've never been one for living life in sedate fashion - I've been a Christian. A radical Christian. Not the Sunday hat wearing variety, with its emphasis on social respectability - rather the radical politics that Christ preached.

I will always be a radical - by nature - wherever that takes me. I will always speak out and be honest. I can be no other way - which is why I'll be spoiling my vote at this election. As you say, times have changed and the political landscape has become extreme and polarised and poisonous.I cannot vote with integrity and heart for any of the parties; even if my sympathy will always tend towards a more humane socialist vision of society.

The emerging movement has to be towards a more earth centred; local community led, 'people before profit' kind of world, which respects the human need for the dignity of work and the requirement for decent and humane living conditions, and which does not treat other creatures and life forms as commodities.

As far as I can see, the early days of the various women's movements have always been radical affairs. Women didn't get the vote by asking nicely. And the early days of the women's liberation movement were defined by women trying to do things differently; operate differently to the dominant system. The bookshops, cafes, health centres.....were run on a 'not for profit', or shared profit basis......all funds going back into the enterprise......these enterprises were co-operatives - and those that still exist remain so to this day.

Feminism was rooted in Socialism and Humanism - in a class based, material analysis of society and its structures of power and wealth.
The idea that feminism is about liberating women to do what they want in the context of the current system is certainly a valid stance for many.

For me the Conservative party does what it says on the tin - and that is to conserve & protect privilege & wealth, and the structures which keep that in place.

What gets Conservatives excited and passionate? Perhaps you could share your experience? But from what I've seen it seems to amount to felling strongly about inheritance tax, or about paying as little tax as possible.....and people 'taking responsibility for their own lives' ( which is also valid, of course, but we do have to be aware that people are born into very different conditions and situations in relation to the structures of wealth and power which exist).

And now we see this Brexit ideology of 'national sovereignty' - which is aligned to the ideology of the 'free individual making their own choices' The thing is, none of us 'makes choices' in a vacuum - and we are all products of our varied experiences.

Doubt very much you don't know any conservative voters

Honestly! This is silly. you seem to have conjured up a rather fixed image of me - from the snippets of life I've described.

My husband was a Conservative voter when we first met. He comes from an upper middle class family from Oxfordshire with very privileged roots. I used to live in Buckinghamshire in a heavily Tory voting constituency....My husband's colleagues when he worked in London were mainly very middle class & privileged people, who I've no doubt voted Conservative. My young, runaway gay friend was the son of a west country Tory MP......I've socialised with all sorts of people. From the sons and daughters of aristocrats to the poorest of the poor.

But the most lasting or meaningful friendships have tended to be with other outsiders, mis-fits, intense people, radicals of one sort or other ( from all backgrounds), people who have lived their life on various edges, having rejected the mainstream in certain ways.

But the most lasting or meaningful friendships have tended to be with other outsiders, mis-fits, intense people, radicals of one sort or other ( from all backgrounds), people who have lived their life on various edges, having rejected the mainstream in certain ways

Perhaps reflect on why none of your friends or acquaintances are prepared to be open with you about this? What repossessed might they get? You might be surprised, even if they are from The Wirral grin

I was born on the Wirral, and have lived on the Wirral at various times in my life. Is that you stereotyping me as a gobby 'scouser' by any chance - with a chip on her shoulder? Just because I could never vote Tory.

As it happens I've also worked with Esther McVey - because yes, I've also run my own business. At that time she was running an organisation in Liverpool called 'Winning Women' - which provided office space and support to female business starters.

Esther is actually far more from the sort of background you seem to imagine me to be from. She had a harsh and deprived upbringing - being brought up in care for large parts of her life. I kind of get why she is a Conservative -given her very particular life experiences - but am very disappointed in her heartlessness now she is in the corridors of power. I don't think she suits politics at all.