Why would a feminist vote conservative?

[Littlelamp456]

Pondering this today with the upcoming election. Many of my friends who consider themselves feminists but very openly supporting conservatives...
With the current levels of austerity, rape clauses in tax credits and universal credit falling directly on women’s shoulders, police cuts are undoubtedly bad for women, the women left in terrible situations because of the state pension age rises, scrapping nursing bursaries, the benefit cap, legal aid!...
I know Corbyn has many issues but poor women are literally dying and forced into sex work under a Tory government, children are going hungry, women can’t get sufficient police or medical support and legal aid. I feel Poor women are being hung out to dry.

I know there’s the current ‘trans debate’ but I still don’t understand how women could think a conservative government could be better for women overall?

I really want to understand this. So if you’re a feminist and vote/planning to vote Tory, can you tell me why?

When I saw the entire hall erupt in cheers at the Labour Party Conference when a pimply youth protested that the Women’s Place UK meeting the day before was transphobic, full of hate speech and shouldn’t be allowed, when I saw the labour member protesting against the violent protestors outside the meeting being jeered and booed, I decided no way I could not vote Labour again.
Seeing Jeremy Corbyn state when asked in an interview “Yes, TWAW”, when the interviewer pressed “what, actual women”. “Yes”. And you could see in his eyes, he did NOT mean it, but didn’t have the guts to deny it. Well, that was just like a slap in the face.
I don’t want to vote for anyone. I honestly can’t bring myself to. My DH keeps saying, yes, but APART from the trans issue, what will you vote? But I don’t see an “apart”.
It’s remotely possible if the Tory candidate here is against self Id, they may get my vote.....

If this thread is “Asking for a comrade friend,” OP, be sure to send a link to Magic Grandad

(Sorry, haven’t RTFT)

I’ve posted this elsewhere but with many speaking about spoiling their ballots I’ve decided to post it on all relevant threads.

*I know some people would rather feast on the raw flesh of their first-born child than vote Conservative, but for those for whom sinking gender self-ID is a priority, please consider holding your nose and voting Conservative. The Conservatives are not enthusiastic about this policy, in fact I think many think it’s absurd, once its ramifications are pointed out. Teresa May thought it would be a good way to appeal to liberals, not realising that women would be majorly affected and unhappy about it.

I think they are starting to understand what the general public feel about self-ID and have put it on the back burner for now. I think this will be their policy going forwards, citing Brexit and other parliamentary business neglected while the focus has been on Brexit. This gives us more time to educate the general public and make politicians and policy-makers see what the public really thinks, giving them the confidence to privately or publicly oppose self-ID.

Obviously, some people have other priorities, and I’m not even sure what is best to do to deal with the Brexit situation, which is another major issue, but if self-ID is your number one issue I think the Conservatives deserve serious consideration.*

Barracker, spot on. I would like to add one thing though and that is that women's sex based rights never have been and never will be a priority in this world. It's always 'we'll sort a out and then we can discuss women's rights' then when a is sorted, b takes priority over women's rights. Women are never front of the queue. It makes me feel utterly hopeless and, like many others, politically homeless.

Teresa May thought it would be a good way to appeal to liberals

This is the upshot when you get as leader someone whose main claim to fame is decimating the police and apologizing for being a Conservative. The Conservatives should be making explicit their refusal to embrace newspeak nonsense. It’s an utterly dire state for democracy when an aggressive niche lobby group’s demands are meekly accepted by all parties

Barracker- gosh, that gave me a shiver. So frightening and almost no one realises. Please share widely - and thank you.

When I saw the entire hall erupt in cheers at the Labour Party Conference when a pimply youth protested that the Women’s Place UK meeting the day before was transphobic, full of hate speech and shouldn’t be allowed, when I saw the labour member protesting against the violent protestors outside the meeting being jeered and booed, I decided no way I could not vote Labour again.

Nellie - yes, this!

It is so fucking insulting. Demonstrative that Labour just think women should stfu about their hard won rights, and roll over for the good of everyone else.

Plus - what you said about Corbyn. All of your post, in fact. I'm 48 and have voted labour in all elections bar a couple - I voted libdem once, and green once. Ugh.

I may actually hold my nose and vote conservative. Liz Truss vs Dawn Butler. God - I can't believe I've actually got to this position. I feel so utterly betrayed by Labour & LibDems.

IMO Universal Credit which has led to poverty and misery alone is enough to not vote for Conservative, and to vote for whomever their main competitor is.

And as well all know, one factor which leads some women into prostitution is poverty. And the best way to tackle prostitution IMO is to tackle the underlying issues.

If I can offer up a short answer:

Because women died to get us a vote. No mate how shite the options you MUST cast your vote for the candidate you see as the least worst.

And for some that will be the Tories... I am pondering it, still weighing up the heinous crimes of all parties and looking at the local bias. I say that as an ex Labour member, lifelong socialist, mid 50 year old woman from a resolutely working class background! Imagine how I feel about that!!!

I have an ex-colleague / friend who is an ardent Corbynite. I thought I couldn't really think less of her political nous, then she posted that TWAW and we should all play nice and be inclusive, cos we are Mothers of the Earth.

I have had to hide her on facebook, for her own safety!

"Women - step aside for the good of those born male. Again."

Is all I'm hearing from every party except conservative. It pains me to say this.

IMO Universal Credit which has led to poverty and misery alone is enough to not vote for Conservative, and to vote for whomever their main competitor is.

If the manifesto is broadly similar to the last one, Labour isn't going to scrap UC and return to tax credits. It's going to tinker round a few edges and commit four times the cash to abolishing university tuition fees than it is on adding to the UC pot.

(I won't be voting Tory, btw.)

"so really like the conservatives commitment to apprenticeship schemes."

Including for women over 60?

www.theguardian.com/money/2017/jul/05/women-hit-by-pension-age-change-can-take-up-apprenticeships

"She just told you: five years or forever"

I doubt the 33 year old homeless (for 3 and a half years) woman ive spoken to has five more years to spare.

And she has already been raped.

Trewser Your first and second kids' rates of CB are irrelevant to the rape clause because CB for the first two is not dependent upon a rape disclosure. A third child discovering (perhaps through seeing a letter that they shouldn't have because all kids are such great respecters of parents' privacy and never try to sneak a peek at letters) that they get CB will, at some point (possibly not until adulthood, but at some point), find out about the rape disclosure rule. And then that child will know that they were fathered through rape. What do you think that's going to do to that child?

And what do you think that having to repeat that disclosure every time her circumstances change and she has to resubmit her CB claim will do to the mother?

OP The Tories may be terrible for defending women's rights but at least we women can step up and fill that gap by funding woman-centered charities like Nia. If the definition of woman in the Equality Act is changed from "a female of any age" to something else that doesn't centre female biology, then we lose the ability to fill that gap ourselves. The ideal situation is one where the law recognises our sex-based oppression caused by male abuse of our biology (i.e. only we can be raped and made pregnant by our rapist) and also the state funds remedial work like rape centres and DV hostels. But if the state will only fund remedial work that is open to men because the criteria for provision is self-identification as "woman" instead of being female, then it is useless to women because those men may rape us. (See also: Karen White.)

I wrote about this on another thread and I'm not going to repeat myself:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3725134-Issues-of-poverty-are-being-neglected-by-social-justice-movements-because-of-the-overwhelming-focus-on-sexuality?msgid=91068429
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3725134-Issues-of-poverty-are-being-neglected-by-social-justice-movements-because-of-the-overwhelming-focus-on-sexuality?msgid=91078010

TracyRacer IMO Universal Credit which has led to poverty and misery alone is enough to not vote for Conservative, and to vote for whomever their main competitor is.

And as well all know, one factor which leads some women into prostitution is poverty. And the best way to tackle prostitution IMO is to tackle the underlying issues.

Labour now believe that "sex work" is work and prostitution should be decriminalised. What makes you think that they will prioritise ending the causes of it? Labour-majority Leeds City Council brought in a red-light zone in which prostitution is de facto decriminalised and women have been abducted from the streets and raped, schoolgirls propositioned in uniform. Many of the women are trafficked from e.g. Romania and are raped for cash "work" with a pimp watching them. I no longer trust Labour to act in the interests of prostituted women.

HelenaDove I doubt the 33 year old homeless (for 3 and a half years) woman ive spoken to has five more years to spare.

If we can't provide a single-sex hostel for her because we can't discriminate on sex any more, we can't help her now or ever. Assuming here that you'd agree with me that a homeless female rape victim should not be housed with men.

And she has already been raped.

No. A man has raped her. Name the perpetrator and it becomes clear why she should not be housed with men.

Because women died to get us a vote. No mate how shite the options you MUST cast your vote for the candidate you see as the least worst.

You can't spoil your ballot if you're not permitted to vote. Women died to get us the right to spoil our ballots, as well as to vote, and spoiling your ballot is a legitimate protest in the face of a collection of terrible candidates and terrible parties.

Whatever you do, don't stay at home on polling day.

Including for women over 60?

Yes, for everyone.
Whether I agree with women over 60 having to stay in work is neither here nor there when it comes to my views on their apprenticeship schemes.

It’s almost like you can agree with one policy and not another, eh?

And she has already been raped
Can you please explain to me how removing women’s sex based rights will reduce rape?
Because I think labours policy that TWAW will do nothing but increase rape. Although it might go down as being committed by a female, but I don’t think that’ll make it better for any victims somehow..

f we can't provide a single-sex hostel for her because we can't discriminate on sex any more, we can't help her now or ever. Assuming here that you'd agree with me that a homeless female rape victim should not be housed with men

I agree with this that they shouldn’t be housed with men, but it is Tory policies that have increased homelessness massively and led to the lack of hostels.
Because of this, she may we’ll be sleeping on the streets open to attacks by every man.
Funding for hostels has been hit massively, many are now mixed sex anyway due to lack of funding.
I get the argument completely that women should have single sex spaces when vulnerable, but how much longer will these single sex spaces be available at all under a Tory government?

Too little too late labour.

www.scotsman.com/news/politics/row-over-tension-between-women-s-and-trans-rights-divides-scottish-labour-1-5044173/amp?__twitter_impression=true

An interesting read - ‘old news’ but it shows how people can be completely duped:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/10666875/Patricia-Hewitt-called-for-age-of-consent-to-be-lowered-to-ten.html?fbclid=IwAR3fdh41prgby92HCFldl79cTyg1nV3kogAewGxPntjtAdJBX3QbSJiPAwM

I agree with the OP.
The decimation of women's rights and the services that disproportionately affect women (hospitals, refuges, social services, police etc) have declined massively under this current government and I cannot fathom how anyone would vote for more of the same.

Yes we are not one homogeneous group who think and act the same but we all understand sexism, discrimination and unfairness in our daily lives and can see that these have got worse. My children's schools crying out for funding in a way I never thought i would see, my bin collections moving from weekly to fortnightly, police telling you not to call 999 in an emergency but a local helpline number or complete an online form .. these are the everyday impacts that no one can ignore and I'm one of the lucky ones as I'm financially well off enough not to have to work and will be hit hard by the inheritance tax changes parties like Labour propose - however I'm looking wider at society and feel that at least Labour plan to try and re-balance what has undoubtedly become a failed system for those who have the least in society. Still undecided on who to vote for but we definitely need to halt the current status quo.

Austerity has disproportionately affected women, about 90% of those affected by the cuts have been women. Unfortunately this is not a priority for many feminists at the moment. Which is really handy for the Tories.

Society as a whole doesn’t care about poor people, especially poor women, sadly.

She has missed out on a place in a hostel several times once due to being "adequately housed" because she was sleeping in a shed.

And because a lot of the men in the area have an addiction and are seen as vulnerable and she is seen to be coping.

Something similar happened in Torbay I posted it on a housing thread on here.

YY Sinister. Demonstrated by the fact that this thread struggled to get to two pages.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3654459-Housing-is-unaffordable-for-women-in-every-English-region-Womens-Budget-Group