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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Why would a feminist vote conservative?

178 replies

Littlelamp456 · 11/11/2019 19:41

Pondering this today with the upcoming election. Many of my friends who consider themselves feminists but very openly supporting conservatives...
With the current levels of austerity, rape clauses in tax credits and universal credit falling directly on women’s shoulders, police cuts are undoubtedly bad for women, the women left in terrible situations because of the state pension age rises, scrapping nursing bursaries, the benefit cap, legal aid!...
I know Corbyn has many issues but poor women are literally dying and forced into sex work under a Tory government, children are going hungry, women can’t get sufficient police or medical support and legal aid. I feel Poor women are being hung out to dry.

I know there’s the current ‘trans debate’ but I still don’t understand how women could think a conservative government could be better for women overall?

I really want to understand this. So if you’re a feminist and vote/planning to vote Tory, can you tell me why?

OP posts:
Trewser · 11/11/2019 22:53

Boris is easy shorthand.

Theresa May proposed looking at fox hunting and there was an outcry so they dumped it. Boris gf is very pro animal rights.

They probably won't actually ban hunt meets so it will just go on as it does now, within the law.

Justhadathought · 11/11/2019 22:55

What gave you the idea feminist meant conformity to left wing dogma?

Obviously women come in all shapes and forms and from different backgrounds and circumstances; and yet for may of us feminism has been about a radical kind of politics - a politics that is not just about the individual and their personal interest, but about the group, & about women as an under-privileged class. Most often without money or power of their own.

Trewser · 11/11/2019 22:56

I don't know and wouldn't presume to know what my friends and acquaintances vote. I do know that some vote Labour, some Green, some Brexit, some Lib Dems and some Tory.

Justhadathought · 11/11/2019 22:56

They probably won't actually ban hunt meets so it will just go on as it does now, within the law

What is going on now is not within the law, though. All kind of subversions.....

Trewser · 11/11/2019 22:57

Well if they are proven then they can take the hunts to court, and have in some cases. Not sure what the issue is.

Justhadathought · 11/11/2019 22:58

I don't know and wouldn't presume to know what my friends and acquaintances vote. I do know that some vote Labour, some Green, some Brexit, some Lib Dems and some Tory

It is certainly interesting that in certain kinds of 'polite society' people really don't know, or ask, what other people vote. Have to say, though, that is quite alien to my experience.

Justhadathought · 11/11/2019 23:00

Well if they are proven then they can take the hunts to court, and have in some cases. Not sure what the issue is

This particular issue relates to hunting with dogs, and the Tory tendency to favour, or at least, condone it. The rural fox hunting constituency is a Tory voting constituency.

NonnyMouse1337 · 11/11/2019 23:01

In case anyone is interested, here's an explanation of how money actually functions in an economy -
modernmoneybasics.com/

There are a lot of myths around government spending, that somehow money can run out or that governments need to collect taxes first because this is what funds our public services etc.
These aren't true and it's important to understand the role of money and how it functions so that we can base our political decisions on factual economic information irrespective of whether we align more to the right or the left.

littlbrowndog · 11/11/2019 23:03

That should have been a question mark not “

Barracker · 11/11/2019 23:04

Because a government is for a handful of years. And they can then be unseated.

But the ramifications of allowing a party to legally dissolve the rights of 33 million women and girls will last an entire generation. And yes, because of such a law, women will die, be raped, be excluded, be homebound, be traumatised, be scarred for life, lose the little power and representation they have, lose the entirety of their female rights.

The ramifications of this are catastrophic, and more shattering than any single parliamentary term.

I feel like a kid with my finger in the hole in the dam.

We've had the GRA for 15 years, and it's such a travesty that in all likelihood I'll spend a lifetime arguing for its repeal. Undoing unjust law is a lifetime's work. Undoing a compound injustice of law that has been enthusiastically and zealously promoted across parties will be almost impossible.

If we let a party in power that legally makes the true distinction between men and women unenforceable, it will not be something we can undo. There will be nowhere women can go without men there too, no privacy, ever, no fairness, no statistics on us, no healthcare that can promise us female carers, no recompense or restitution for our discrimination, no representation. And the truth is that if it comes to pass, it is inevitable that one or more of us here on this forum will end up imprisoned, for speaking a truth that has become illegal to speak.

So if I had to pay 5 years of misery to secure the female rights of the next generation, I would do it. I will not sell my daughter's future for a party that promises her the next few years will be nicer, so long as she gives up her right to be recognised as different from men forever.

Trewser · 11/11/2019 23:04

This particular issue relates to hunting with dogs, and the Tory tendency to favour, or at least, condone it. The rural fox hunting constituency is a Tory voting constituency

I don't think there are enough fox hunts to really be that important. A lot of people in the country do not like fox hunting. I really can't see it being relegalised, although if it is it will give the sabs more to do at the weekend!

HandsOffMyRights · 11/11/2019 23:08

Barracker
Excellent post

Justhadathought · 11/11/2019 23:08

How limited a circle can it possibly be?

I told you.. for years I was involved in radical politics...and in that time virtually everyone I was friendly with or associated with was a vegetarian too.....

Having since in some quite diverse locations around the country - and now being considerably older, I have of course met and associated with a very wide range of people from all social backgrounds. My husband comes from quite a different social background to myself.

Still, though, I cannot count amongst my friends and close allies anyone who considers themselves a Tory. I think it must be about common sympathies and values.....we do tend to attract and be attracted to those who share a particular world view.

However, these days I consider myself fairly free, or moving to be free of party political allegiance. Still could not vote Tory, though.

Justhadathought · 11/11/2019 23:09

since lived in quite diverse locations

littlbrowndog · 11/11/2019 23:10

Yes barracker
Me too

nauticant · 11/11/2019 23:11

Spot on Barracker. If Labour or the Lib Dems got to put self ID into law and culture as deeply as they'd like then it really would be a lifetime before things could get steered back to where we were before we were saddled with the travesty that is the GRA.

RaininSummer · 11/11/2019 23:14

Fabulous Barraker. I wish I were so articulate.

PreseaCombatir · 11/11/2019 23:15

This isn’t directed at anyone in particular, but as I said earlier, I have voted for every party at one point on my life.
There are certain people who are so opinionated when it comes to politics that I can’t even be bothered to discuss things with them. There’s no point, but I’m sure they would take my silence for agreement.
I’m not disputing anyone’s claims that they know who their friends vote for, but it’s just food for thought for anyone who is quite politically vocal.

Littlelamp456 · 11/11/2019 23:15

Barraker I agree with you in part. But hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of women are being negatively impacted already by measures put in place by the Tories? Women feel they have no option but to sell their bodies, food bank requests have gone from tens of thousands to millions within a few years. Women can’t afford to get divorced...

How do you make the distinction between which evil is the lesser?

For those of you voting Tory purely because of self ID, do you feel they are doing a good job at present of protecting sex based rights and spaces?

OP posts:
CarolCutrere · 11/11/2019 23:21

I told you.. for years I was involved in radical politics...and in that time virtually everyone I was friendly with or associated with was a vegetarian too.....

Yes I read your autobiography. I'm still boggled that anyone could move in such limited circles. And I'm someone who is generally seen as a person who tends to gravitate towards people just like me.

Oh and like feminists, vegetarians, can be Conservatives. I'm a Tory vegetarian. The late Tory grandee Alan Clark was. He and Anne Widdecombe , although not a vegetarian, campaigned against live export of animals. I'm sure Alan Clark and I can't be the only non-carnivorous Tories.

Trewser · 11/11/2019 23:23

Great post barracker

CarolCutrere · 11/11/2019 23:23

Bit of an aside but what is happening with Jennifer James' case against the Labour party re all women short lists?

theflushedzebra · 11/11/2019 23:30

Do you know, I was going to spoil my vote.

But I've just had the realisation:

Who do I want as Ministers for Women & Equalities? Liz Truss or Dawn Butler?

Liz Truss made a pretty promising speech about paying regard to women's single sex spaces. Dawn Butler calls women bigots.

OP, you keep repeating the same thing over and over - we've given you answers - self ID is the single biggest threat to women's rights because it removes them completely. Women's rights are not women's rights if males can claim them too.

Justhadathought · 11/11/2019 23:32

Yes I read your autobiography. I'm still boggled that anyone could move in such limited circles. And I'm someone who is generally seen as a person who tends to gravitate towards people just like me

When you are very passionately involved in political activism, that is what happens.....you move in concentric circles that tend to be linked to each other. Of course, into that circle may appear all manner of waifs and stray, from all sorts backgrounds....people who see themselves as outsiders , or who are fleeing from very certain personal and social conditions. that was certainly true for me.

Tell me about your wide ranging social circle then? I'm imagining a certain kind of middle class metropolitan lifestyle - where people may vote differently but are all still pretty privileged and from quite a certain range of occupations. Forgive me If I'm wrong, but most people tend to become friends with people who are quite similar to them, even if they associate with others.

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