Why would a feminist vote conservative?

[Littlelamp456]

Pondering this today with the upcoming election. Many of my friends who consider themselves feminists but very openly supporting conservatives...
With the current levels of austerity, rape clauses in tax credits and universal credit falling directly on women’s shoulders, police cuts are undoubtedly bad for women, the women left in terrible situations because of the state pension age rises, scrapping nursing bursaries, the benefit cap, legal aid!...
I know Corbyn has many issues but poor women are literally dying and forced into sex work under a Tory government, children are going hungry, women can’t get sufficient police or medical support and legal aid. I feel Poor women are being hung out to dry.

I know there’s the current ‘trans debate’ but I still don’t understand how women could think a conservative government could be better for women overall?

I really want to understand this. So if you’re a feminist and vote/planning to vote Tory, can you tell me why?

Complete;y agree zebra. My sister is pretty high up in Momentum and tells me glibly that feminism is not relevent and that socialism (their brand of it I hasten to add) is all that counts. She cannot debate, aggressively shouts others down and speaks in slogans. If she ever gets anywhere near real power I shall be very afraid as she cares nothing for women.

At the moment it’s a toss up between buckethead and Mr Fishfinger.

She aggressively shouts others down and speaks in slogans. If she ever gets anywhere near real power I shall be very afraid as she cares nothing for women.

It’s the shouting people down and refusing to listen to any alternative viewpoint. The worst thing about these kind of activists is they are absolutely convinced of their own moral certainty. Tiresome

Why are people still parroting the 'labour overspending caused austerity' lie?

The global banking crisis - caused by people like Deutsche Bank, where Sajid David was working at the time - crashed the economy. Measures taken by Brown were bringing us out of recession by 2010, when the Conservatives brought a screeching halt to the economy which is still very much limping along.

Austerity is a political choice, only embraced by the economically illiterate, and always designed to punish the most vulnerable in society.

Many of those vulnerable people are women, such as those being denied access to DV refuges closed by the Tories.

So vote Tory if you want, but you're not doing it for women and you're not doing it for the economy.

I understand that men in women’s spaces is a huge issue

It's not just about physical spaces, though...it is about the very definition of what a woman is........the suggestion that a woman is just a feeling in someone's head. this is profound; and has knock on consequences in all areas of life and society. It ignores the struggles of women who have fought for their own spaces and services, and fails to see that for many women around the world - it is not how they 'identify' that matters - but the fact of their sex; their femaleness.

Nobody asks the baby girl born India how she 'identifies', as she is placed in a pot and buried alive in the earth'; or the young woman confined to the male guardian system in Saudi Arabia; or the young Somali girl subject to FGM.

furthermore, our children are in the frame for being told that they can be born in the wrong body and could change sex if they wanted. girls being told that maybe they are really boys; and vice versa......

The denial of science and material reality; and a total suppression of the material ( biological) reasons for women's oppression.....

It really is not just about toilets.

OP, so you are saying we might as vote somebody in who would remove the legal protections of women - because you don't think the tories will fund women's services?

I would rather fight for funding - than have the legal definition of woman removed from legislation.

And girls losing out to boys in their own sporting competitions; loss of medals and scholarships and the sense of satisfaction for hard work and training

They wouldn't.

Who wouldn't do what, Jason ? (Think you're responding to a post upthread, but not sure which one).

Complete;y agree zebra. My sister is pretty high up in Momentum and tells me glibly that feminism is not relevent and that socialism (their brand of it I hasten to add) is all that counts.

Yes. That's where we are with Labour & Momentum right now - women are simply not relevant. We'll have no protections in law due to our biological sex left.

As a Lib Dem friend of mine said to me, politics is a journey, not a marriage: you're not looking for the perfect life partner, but for the mode of transport that will get you the closest to the destination you want.

Which is why I'll be voting Lib Dem, despite the fact that they don't know what a woman is.

Not all feminists think the same way and not all conservative voters think the same way. As far as the latter are concerned:
Some may be 'traditionalists' who value the traditional 'wife and mother' role. There's a feminist argument here.
Some may earn a lot of money or be shareholders in a business that affords them an income
Some may be professionals / business owners who do not wish personal and corporate taxes to rise
Some are socially conservative and/or are opposed the identity politics movement which has largely been more supported by the left
Some think the Conservative party is the best of a bad bunch for this election
Some think their local MP who is a conservative has done a good job in their constituency, or that the labour/lib dem/other MP has done a shit job and realistically a Tory is the other option
Some philosophically are inclined to support smaller state / lower regulations / personal responsibility arguments than the alternative.

Some people vote differently for different, opposite or arbitrary reasons.

If you treat people as individuals and listen, it's easier to gain insight into their POV.

Do you have any conservative voters you could ask IRL OP? If not, it might be good to expand your network to encompass them, as it would benefit all of us to broaden our exposure to other perspectives.

I would rather fight for funding - than have the legal definition of woman removed from legislation

But fights against self ID have been fairly successful to date, in the GRA consultation. Fights against austerity measures leaving women destitute, without vital services or support and up shit creek, have not

Do you really think that’s the best way to do it?

I understand the concern, I really do. But aren’t the Torys the ones who proposed self ID in the first place? What’s to say you’re ‘safe’ with them? Why vote in austerity with the Hope self ID will stay out? Do you think a Tory Govt will ban gender reassignment surgery? Or hormones? Or refuse to hold another GRA consultation over self ID?

Do you really think that’s the best way to do it?

There is no other way. I cannot vote for a party that would give away women's legal protections.

You cannot protect women if you don't know what a woman is - and you allow males to legally have a claim to the word woman, and the legal protections that women have fought for. Things are in a bad enough state for women as it is - whoever would've thought a woman could be raped by a male bodied transwoman in a women's prison?

Really? So you are the third child and find out your mother gets child benefit for you. How do you feel?

Does this ever really happen @Inebriati? How many children know the ins and outs of their parents' benefits entitlement? And you would need to know the amounts in detail, not just that they were receiving the benefit.

They would also have to know the rules for entitlement and that there is an exemption for children resulting from rape.

Honestly, I don't think this is very likely to happen and it's certainly not worth scrapping the whole 2 child limit for, which is the only other solution.

I would like you to explain why you think you can dictate to feminists that they must vote Labour? Feminists can vote Conservative. The Tories have had two female Prime Ministers. The current Labour Party can’t define the word ‘woman.’ It’s possible to be a feminist without being a socialist. Surely you know that?

Yes I know many conservative voters. I myself am from a very WC background though and know many who have been horrendously let down by the current govt.

I understand labour certainly are not perfect and still don’t know exactly who I will vote for. But I feel as a society we should look out for the poorest. And particularly as feminists and women, for other women.

Myself, I will be directly affected by rise in corporation tax that labour wish to impose. But I have been homeless before, I have been on benefits and I could very easily end up there again. I have friends and family who weren’t able to get out of the rough that I luckily managed too and can’t fathom being able to support a party who’s openly ripping vital services and support from under the feet of those who desperately need it.

I was rushed into hospital a few years back, my DC's had to open the mail. They would certainly have found out if I was getting CB for a third child.

I am a woman. That does not mean I have to base my vote entirely upon women's issues. I am rather irritated by the suggestion, much like the women's supplement in newspapers used to annoy me.

Anyway, Labour are like me, I've got grand plans to do all kinds of stuff, shame I can't afford any of it but that's how it is.

littlelamp

But fights against self ID have been fairly successful to date, in the GRA consultation.

In what way do you mean? I haven’t heard that self Id is being stopped?

I am a woman. That does not mean I have to base my vote entirely upon women's issues
I mean as a feminist though. How will we ever achieve equality in any meaningful sense without putting issues that are overwhelmingly affecting women at the forefront of our political choices?

No every they haven’t announced that self ID is being stopped. However, given that self ID was first proposed in 2016 and we’re now at the end of 2019 with ‘no comment’ on the matter from the government, it seems people have been listened too so far from that particular legislative point. Women’s voices have made a difference on that matter, it didn’t just slip under the radar. Which sadly, can’t be said for many of the austerity measures put in place.

I'm feeling politically homeless for the first time in my life, and am considering spoiling my ballot. I do worry though; women worked so hard for the vote and now because we feel rejected by the parties, many of us are considering our ballots and in effect disenfranchising ourselves. Seems to be playing into the hands of misogyny.

The Lib Dems and Labour talk a good game about women's rights but the Tories have supplied the two female leaders of the country. And they appear to be at least passably aware of what a woman actually is.

I think they are all as shit as each other.

Why are people still parroting the 'labour overspending caused austerity' lie?

Does it really matter for tis discussion though? The point here must be that women, even feminists, have all kinds of different perspectives on economic and other questions which will laad them to vote differently.

This is an appeal fairly often heard: put the self ID stuff aside women aand concentrate on the real problems affecting women.

This is the problem affecting women. It's the one massive problem impacting on absolutely everything else, it's not a single issue for women, it's every single issue. Take a look at a lot of the threads at the top of the board tonight Littlelamp, a lot of women are explaining exactly why they feel this way.

This is so not about toilets or a few men in women's spaces. This is fundamental. There will be no point in rearranging any other political deckchairs on the Titanic for women once women as a sex class have been lost, because you won't be able to see or talk about them.

Women here are also hugely used to being encouraged that it would be nicer and more socially responsible to stop getting upset about the GRA and look at other things when they're making a noise that's starting to draw attention.