Do women have the right to say they feel uncomfortable over a name?

[SarahNade]

I hope this is as safe place to ask this. I am on a discussion on another thread, and it seems many think that a woman has no right to ask not to be addressed by a colloquial term, and if she does ask, she is the one being unreasonable for daring to stick her neck out, she is the one overreacting, for merely asking. Yet the male who went politely asked, gets offended that a woman dares utter her discomfort, and gets abusive with her. So why is it the woman who is 'overreacting' by merely asking not to be called something, but the man is not seen as overreacting by taking offence to her request and getting indignant?

Do women have the right to ask politely not be called something, without being told they are 'overreacting'? Or should women accept being called a term they don't like, shut up and put up with it in case she gets the male in trouble?

CarolCutrere At what point did I say the name wasn't on the list? I think you need to reconsider who has the overactive imagination. What I did describe was the thought processes of delivery people which I know about from experience (15 years). We'd never ring up and say Mrs Whatevs wants to know what time you'll be there because the answer would be 'Who? Gizzaminute' . But if you asked what time they'd get to Grange Court they could tell you straight away. Which is a side thing anyway.

CriticalCondition Did the OP say the driver repeatedly used her name? I haven't seen that. It'd surprise me - whenever I've dealt with grocery deliveries for myself and others the driver just says a cheery 'Delivery!' never a name.

Alltheprettyseahorses
CarolCutrereAt what point did I say the name wasn't on the list? I think you need to reconsider who has the overactive imagination

Here are your exact words

And from 15 years' experience in the delivery and logistics trade, the customer isn't Mrs Whatnot, she's No 11 Whatever Road before you go to 95 Somewhereelse Avenue 12

You posited a risible explanation that he repeatedly used love to avoid having to remember her name and when challenged on how risible that was then said , well there probably wasn't a name anyway.

CriticalConditionDid the OP say the driver repeatedly used her name? I haven't seen that. It'd surprise me - whenever I've dealt with grocery deliveries for myself and others the driver just says a cheery 'Delivery!' never a name.

Alltheprettyseahorses You have missed the point Critical Condition was making. Your creative writing skills clearly excel your comprehension skills.

Would he really say 'oh, isn't that right Mrs Smith... sorry, Mrs Smith, I'll check the order... I'll check the van, Mrs Smith... can't find it, Mrs Smith... d TXon't you want the duck, Mrs Smith'.
Whether it was used as a cheery colloquialism or a snidey put down, or both, it was unnecessary. He didn't have to call her anything.

Is that how the conversation went then, only substituting "love" for "Mrs Smith"? Were you there? Only I've not seen it said anywhere that this was the conversation.

Maybe he said "sorry love, they're given you a duck instead of a chicken" and she then complained about duck being more expensive (though I've never been charged more for a substitution), complained about needing a roast for Sunday and not to call her love. He then replies "sorry, let.me look.in the van for a chicken, love" totally without thinking because it's just automatic.

See, equally plausible as your scenario and equally made up seeing as neither of us were there. Difference being I'm not presenting mine as a factual account of what happened.

Again, CarolCutrere, where have I said there would have been no name? Do you think overworked delivery drivers under ridiculous pressure to meet strict time deadlines sit and learn names? No. They look where they're going and how many boxes/trays/whatevers to be delivered at each stop. That isn't a 'risible explanation' that I've 'posited'. That is how it works.

(and excuse me for trying to read a thread before I have to get off the bus. The point still stands)

So. Pub in Leeds/Sheffield/Bradford. Perfectly fine for a man to go in and say to the man behind the bar “Pint of Theakstons, please, love”. Then to wander over to another guy watching the football and say “Hi, love- what’s the score?”

It would be more the bar man saying it to the customer, but not uncommon.
The second one, I don't think it's used in that sense "Hi Love", it's usually at the end of a sentence.
There's one particular guy I know - Clive - calls all men love, but he's in his 70s, I think it's less common with younger guys.

btw, I just popped out to the Post Office and the woman behind the counter said "cheers hun" to the man in front of me as he was leaving. I almost ducked for cover, expecting him to explode into rage, but he just said "see ya" and walked off

So far none of the delivery drivers (men or women) had any need to address me in any way . Normally it goes

Them: Good evening,where would you like the shopping?
Me:just pop it down here please .
T: that's all/x is missing sorry/there is y substitution is that ok?
M:great thank you
T: do you have any bags for me tonight?
Me:yes/no
T: have a good evening
M: thank you ,you too

There's literally no need at all in most situations to have miss mrs mr sir love hun etc mentioned.

Alltheprettyseahorses you posted this risibly implausible invention as to why he used the word "love" repeatedly.

in the case of the delivery driver, I'd imagine he used 'love' because it's a generic friendly term that would guard against embarrassment of forgetting the name of his 34th drop of the day out of 67 during their 2 minute encounter while he's worrying about getting to the next customer in time

You then posted the contradictory post

And from 15 years' experience in the delivery and logistics trade, the customer isn't Mrs Whatnot, she's No 11 Whatever Road before you go to 95 Somewhereelse Avenue 12

In your first piece of fantasy fiction the name was apparently vital- in your second attempt the name doesn't even matter.

Your fantasy writing and determination to invent scenarios where the woman was at fault and the driver wasn't is stunning.

WhiskeyLullaby

And the majority of my customers are the same - hello, thank you, goodbye possibly some chit chat in the middle about the weather.

Then there are others who address me as love, dear, pet or directly by my name. Men and women. Maybe we need to have a rule that no one is allowed to address anyone by colloquialisms or by first names?

It is not an explanation for using love though as a PP said. It's totally fine to use nothing if you don't know the name it doesn't have to be either or.

So why does anyone use love or pet etc then? No one needs to use those terms do they, but many people do. I guess they are ingrained speech patterns. It still doesn't mean that he was being deliberately offensive by using it.

I had a young man, Jehovah's Witness, I think, try to stop me in the street today calling me "My love".

He wouldn't have done it to men and that annoyed me. It's so totally patronising, presuming an intimacy that isn't there. Even the tiniest amounts of boundary pushing from men is a bad idea.

It was raining, so I didn't stop and tell him what I thought but left him to keep getting wet. Why should we put up with this though? The faux intimacy is cheeky as hell as well as being sexist.

The faux intimacy is cheeky as hell as well as being sexist

It's the faux intimacy I dislike rather than it necessarily being sexist. If you were a man he would probably have said "my friend"

If the young man had called me "my friend" it wouldn't have annoyed me although it would have sounded a bit odd. I've already said that some men round where I live use "pal" to both sexes, which I don't mind at all.

Love is much more intimate than friend which is why men shouldn't be using it with random women, or women they are meeting in professional settings.

Love is much more intimate than friend which is why men shouldn't be using it with random women, or women they are meeting in professional settings.

But isn't that intimacy, or faux intimacy, still there when women use it with women that they don't know? Maybe no one should be using it? I feel the same when strangers use my first name, particularly when I don't know theirs so we aren't on an equal footing.

Maybe have a think about what men trying to create faux intimacy might mean compared with women doing it. It's different isn't it?

Also think about those anger responses from men when women have asked them not to do it. What do you think that is about?

Maybe have a think about what men trying to create faux intimacy might mean compared with women doing it. It's different isn't it?

Not in most cases, no I don't think there's a difference. Some people are doing it because they're just being friendly, no ulterior motive, some are doing it for other reasons, whether that's sexist, classist or as a way of showing they think they are superior, maybe some men are doing it as a way of getting women to lower their guard.

Assuming that all men are doing it for the same reason and therefore women aren't doing it for any unpleasant reason is very blinkered imo.

Yeah well men's faux intimacy with and dominance over women is on a continuum ends with rape, murder and worldwide oppression of women.

Women's doesn't.

You didn't common on the three men who were asked politely by women not to do this and all three responded with rage or aggression.

I think it's you who has the blinkers on, not me.

comment

Oh and you haven't taken back that bullshit comparing me to the aggressive sexist delivery driver, when I apologised for doing it after I hadn't seen your post requesting me not to, and then haven't used your initials to address you since.

You didn't common on the three men who were asked politely by women not to do this and all three responded with rage or aggression.

What 3 men?

Oh and you haven't taken back that bullshit comparing me to the aggressive sexist delivery driver, when I apologised for doing it after I hadn't seen your post requesting me not to, and then haven't used your initials to address you since.

Because I cross posted with you, just as you cross posted with me.

And when I cross-posted with you and addressed you a way you'd asked me not to, I apologised. You insulted me and then....?

Hhhmm. What can I say? Clearly you are the bigger person.

Driechdrizzle
If the young man had called me "my friend" it wouldn't have annoyed me although it would have sounded a bit odd. I've already said that some men round where I live use "pal" to both sexes, which I don't mind at all

I have only heard "pal" used by working - class Scottish men to other men and usually aggressively.

If you don’t know what to say how about ‘sorry I was wrong’? And then stop commenting on me. It’s rude.