Do women have the right to say they feel uncomfortable over a name?

[SarahNade]

I hope this is as safe place to ask this. I am on a discussion on another thread, and it seems many think that a woman has no right to ask not to be addressed by a colloquial term, and if she does ask, she is the one being unreasonable for daring to stick her neck out, she is the one overreacting, for merely asking. Yet the male who went politely asked, gets offended that a woman dares utter her discomfort, and gets abusive with her. So why is it the woman who is 'overreacting' by merely asking not to be called something, but the man is not seen as overreacting by taking offence to her request and getting indignant?

Do women have the right to ask politely not be called something, without being told they are 'overreacting'? Or should women accept being called a term they don't like, shut up and put up with it in case she gets the male in trouble?

Maybe consider an example of 'colloquial use' separate from issues of sex and class. There's one or two terms which seem to be accepted as common parlance in the US which are likely to be seen as derogatory disablist terms in the U.K.

So, suppose an American - in ignorance of this - uses one of these terms and you ask them not to. What would be a reasonable response on their part?

I'd think something like 'oh, sorry, no offence intended' would be most apt.

I often do this without even thinking.

Would you stop if asked? Would you think someone was overreacting and being ridiculous? Would you be offended to be asked not to.

I think that is rather the point being made.

I couldn’t get excited about being called love by a delivery driver, it’s probably happened and I didn’t notice. I did have to ask a man at work to stop calling me babe. He said it was fine because he was gay. I said it wasn’t, it’s a professional workplace and my name is Anne so please address me and refer to me as that. He rolled his eyes but didn’t do it again.

But if you do it without thinking it suggests it is am embedded element of your speech pattern - not consciously using it. In a short interaction such as - oh I don't know a delivery driver trying to hand over groceries, searching for a chicken as the recipient doesn't want to roast the substituted duck - your attention may not be as focused as it could be on correcting an embedded speech pattern. Is it therefore being deliberately rude - am not sure..... If he over emphasised 'love' after being asked not to use that term then I'd agree he was being rude.

You or anyone else are entitled to ask someone not to call you by a particular name if you don't like it. However, before doing that, try to work out if the name is really offensive, personal or just mildly irritating -and how it is meant. I think you'll come to the conclusion that it isn't worth complaining about. Hope so anyway.

I think as well as announcing our pronouns we should all start announcing our preferred terms of endearment.

Do you not know, that life was much simpler,and indeed nicer,in the oldie days,when a delivery man,postman,market trader, fit guy on a building site,and maybe a man behind the counter in a corner shop, would say, hello love,or whatever local term they use..I have even been in many a corner shop, where an Indian man server has said Hello love,how are you.

It depends on the social context

Oh yes, the glory days when sexual abuse and harassment,especially in the workplace were not a thing.
The days when a man could legally rape his wife.
A teacher could get a student pregnant and no one would bat an eyelid.

Abuse in it's many forms against women and children was brushed under the carpet.

What a nice time to live in.

I like being called love or babe or sweetheart in a casual context. I'm a woman and use colloquialisms to both sexes very frequently.

Generally, I'm not annoyed about colloquial terms such as love, pet, duck, hinny. They tend to be used by people who use similar terms for most people or where they don't know your name.

Work is very different, I'm nobody's love at work.

It is possible to not like something and ask for it not to happen without “taking offence”.
Yes, women (and men) have a perfect right to say what they want to be called. And (just in case someone has claimed otherwise) men in Yorkshire do not routinely call each other love. Oh, and for completeness, cunt is not a routine term of endearment in Glasgow.

"Love" can be very patronising indeed from a man to a woman. Although in Sheffield and Chesterfield people will call people of both sexes "love" and "duck" so not patronising at all, but rather friendly.

If you're the customer you certainly get to decide how you're addressed.

TAAT

The original OP was not being unreasonable, no. However, we've recently had an influx of new posters, many of whom seem to have very Handmaid's-Tale-esque attitudes towards women.

I've also recently seen women on here being told they have a duty to sexually satisfy their partners and making excuses for the male when he attacked his partner in front of their baby, so nothing surprises me anymore tbh.

@Childrenofthestones
I agree with you .
Please don’t think I’m being a pedant but it’s umbrage.
Only reason I mention it is that your typo is so close to that radio show that I had to smile at the thought of a very special middle class type of outrage you have just coined- Umbridge

There's a way of saying 'love' in a harmless, endearing way, and a way that is not OK.. if a man reacts by claiming he is the one being abused, I think we all know which version of 'love' he was using. DARVO

Bertrand there's a whole array of posters that are berating the OP for taking offence. Cornwall , Yorkshire and up north have been mentioned.
As have "duck,chick,hen,cock,mate".

“ There's a way of saying 'love' in a harmless, endearing way, and a way that is not OK..”
That very much depends on the person it’s being said to and rhe context. It’s up to them whether it is harmless and endearing or not.

There's a way of saying 'love' in a harmless, endearing way, and a way that is not OK.. if a man reacts by claiming he is the one being abused, I think we all know which version of 'love' he was using. DARVO

Yup, that's exactly it.

“As have "duck,chick,hen,cock,mate".“

Ah yes. Our usual correspondents from Hovis Advertisement Land.

It’s like those “Advice to visitors to Britain” things isn’t it? “If you are a man and ordering a drink in a pub in Bradford, it is considered courteous to say “And one for yourself, love” to the barman”

Bertrand - in my own personal experience men calling other men love is extremely common in Yorkshire. Obviously can't say all or even a majority but very common across all ages.

My ex worked in a factory north of Chesterfield and reported that all the ex-miners who worked there called him and one another "love" and "duck". It's sweet. Man patronising a woman, not so much.

“ Bertrand - in my own personal experience men calling other men love is extremely common in Yorkshire. Obviously can't say all or even a majority but very common across all ages.”

I have been asking people in various parts of Yorkshire about this ever since I first heard about it on here- probably about 10 years ago. The only person who had heard of it was dp’s grandfather, who agreed that he heard it occasionally in his youth- which happened in the 1930s.

I challenge 'love' all the time - have done for years. To be fair, there's less of it about now.

I'm from the north - see another thread. I'm from the 'respectable working class', I'm a relic from a past era. I wouldn't call anyone 'love', that would be common, as well as patronising. I wouldn't accept anyone addressing me as 'love' because they would be asserting that they had higher social status than me, and even if they had, they shouldn't draw attention to it. The same applies to 'hun'. I challenged that one in a bookstore cafe in Harrogate, and told the young woman how offensive it was. Whilst she had no comprehension of the point I was trying to make, an older lady sitting at a table nearby nodded enthusiastically and gave me an approving look, so I think I'm on the right track!

But then, I hate anyone using my person/first/ Christian name, unless I actually know them. Friends and family. Anyone else can call me Mrs Patty, thanks.

That very much depends on the person it’s being said to and the context That's partly what I am saying Bertrand but also the intent is in the tone and manner of the speaker. In the original thread I have no doubt that the man was being deliberately patronising or intimidating and reacted with DARVO because he was called on it.

But I think the issue is also that a pervy or abusive man can turn any form of address or interaction into something creepy and abusive and then react with "what? little old me? just being friendly".

Every man by now should no the objections to 'love' and 'darling' though so its hard to see it as being anything but deliberate. I'm in the south so it sticks out like a sore thumb when used by men here.