Do women have the right to say they feel uncomfortable over a name?

[SarahNade]

I hope this is as safe place to ask this. I am on a discussion on another thread, and it seems many think that a woman has no right to ask not to be addressed by a colloquial term, and if she does ask, she is the one being unreasonable for daring to stick her neck out, she is the one overreacting, for merely asking. Yet the male who went politely asked, gets offended that a woman dares utter her discomfort, and gets abusive with her. So why is it the woman who is 'overreacting' by merely asking not to be called something, but the man is not seen as overreacting by taking offence to her request and getting indignant?

Do women have the right to ask politely not be called something, without being told they are 'overreacting'? Or should women accept being called a term they don't like, shut up and put up with it in case she gets the male in trouble?

@SarahNade
You were schooled on your deliberate twisting of my words on the other thread. I will not stand for it on here. Rape is as valid a comparison as any, and you know it. It is exactly this disrespect that you are enabling that leads to those things.

No, Madame. It was the opposite. MNHQ came onto that thread and deleted several of your personal attacks on me and then reminded you by commenting on the thread not to engage in such behaviour.

Please respect my reasonable and polite request to not compare the situation of a rape victim to the situation of a woman being addressed with a friendly endearment of “love”. The two situations in regards to stigma, silence, reporting, harm, everything are worlds apart. It was not just me who is appalled at the comparison, it several other posters as well.

PlanDeRaccordement I completely agree. Claiming that they are similar in any way minimises and trivialises rape.

if you heard the n word outside of American dialect then

The n slur is actually Spanish. The slave trade started with the Spanish and they called them “blacks” in Spanish which is the n word (only spelled a bit differently). After over a century of the Spanish trans Atlantic slave trade, the slavers began selling to nonSpanish European colonies and the slaves were simply still called the n word by all. It’s not a word that originated as part of American dialect.

Thank you hearhooves.

“ For those do find it sexist man opens the door for them, can you explain why?”
Does anybody?

The irony is you are bringing class into it, when class is not an issue in this day and age,

Class may not be an issue in Australia, but it is very much an issue in the U.K. (and France btw).

Why do you assume the OP of that thread's class is higher than the delivery driver?

I did not assume, but presumed on the basis of Reality. First, a working class person cannot afford to pay home delivery fees for groceries and the OP could, ergo she is above working class. A delivery driver makes minimum wage, ergo he is working class. Therefore, the OP is higher class than the delivery driver.

First, a working class person cannot afford to pay home delivery fees for groceries and the OP could, ergo she is above working class. A delivery driver makes minimum wage, ergo he is working class. Therefore, the OP is higher class than the delivery driver

What a very bizarre train of thought.

Various supermarkets offer free or very cheap delivery slots at particular times. Another offers free delivery to their own staff. Whether one can afford home delivery of shopping isn’t a class market.

*marker

@PlanDeRaccordement

You were schooled on your deliberate twisting of my words on the other thread. I will not stand for it on here. Rape is as valid a comparison as any, and you know it. It is exactly this disrespect that you are enabling that leads to those things.

Nobody is twisting the above, they are your exact words. You wrote them.

Using this as a comparison to is at best ignorant and thoughtless, at worst disgusting and disingenuous.

Your "and you know it is" us a ridiculous statement to make to people who aren't agreeing with you.

They obviously don't "know it is" because they believe the thing you "know" is wrong.

Honestly comparing it to rape is next level thoughtless.

“ First, a working class person cannot afford to pay home delivery fees for groceries and the OP could, ergo she is above working class. A delivery driver makes minimum wage, ergo he is working class. Therefore, the OP is higher class than the delivery driver.”
Wow. Unfortunately I can’t write French, so you will have to remain unenlightened about your complete misunderstanding of the British class system! Unless others step in.....

One issue that needs considering is that it is not a very large leap from "terms of familiarity must be gender neutral otherwise sexism" to "toilets must be gender neutral otherwise sexism".... it might not be a good idea to assume that all gender differences are primae facie sexist.

This is a great point. We have equivalent gendered terms. The fact that some terms are gendered does not make them sexist.

Shit sorry @PlanDeRaccordement I think I tagged you by accident - huge apologies!!

Not all gendered terms are sexist. However all sexist terms are gendered.

Avocado,
I think you have confused me for SarahNade. I was quoting her there, not myself. She did the rape comparison and when I asked her not wrote the “you were schooled....” blurb to me.

Thank you for vote of support though. :)

Sorry @PlanDeRaccordement I'm so glad I noticed and had time to say sorry - had a panic!

The "holding a door open for a lady" thing is a bit peculiar. My observation is that hardly anyone born after about 1970 subscribes to this, and yet some feminists (who complain about men doing it) and some MRAs (who complain about women wanting it) persist in the belief that it is still commonplace.

Yes Bertrand.
Classic Greek Logic. Just because A is true, it does not mean B is also true. But B can only be true if A is also true. Applies to many things in life.

Do not worry Avocado, I am a benefit of doubt person.
Probably why I am in the “it might have been deliberate sexism, but think it unlikely due to context” camp in this discussion. ;)

Bertrand,
I am going by probability by research done on who class wise shops Tesco online for home delivery.

“Given that most Britons buy most of their food from supermarkets, it's a small step from Meades' point to the conclusion that our supermarkets are class-stratified. Verdict Research, for instance, has found that Waitrose has the highest proportion of shoppers from the professional social classes A and B (47%), followed by Sainsbury's (34%), Marks & Spencer (22%), Tesco (21%) and Safeway (17%).

At the bottom of the market, 72% of Netto's shoppers are blue-collar Ds or Es, with Kwik Save (66%), Lidl (54%) and Somerfield (50%) close behind.”

Also, the working class (AE= blue collar) shops listed above do not offer online ordering and home delivery as far as I know. Home delivery is a luxury that most can not afford.

I thought it was an Asda delivery in the original thread.

Oops. It was ASDA. ASDA and Sainsbury are owned by Walmart and are merging anyway, so maybe more accurate to look at the Sainsbury number than Tesco. My mistake.

On a point of pedantry: Sainsbury's is not owned by Walmart and the merger with ASDA collapsed earlier in the year. Also, your information above is quite out of date as it contains supermarkets (Safeway, Somerfield, Kwik Save) that haven't existed for several years.

But it's all moot, as I'm not sure anyone can really know what was going on based on the limited information given on the other thread. People jumping to strong conclusions are applying their own preconceptions to the situation.

I prefer to be Mrs or Ms x not my first name. In fact the internet o ften thinks that is my first name - Dear "Ms ABC" it will say thinking that must be Janet or some other first name. In just about all situations I tend to be the person paying or in charge or most senior so I rarely get a "givvus a smile, love" or anything like that, whether gendered or otherwise.

Evveryone has a right to ask someone not to call them whatever term. The original post was bout an asda driver who took offence to being asked to stop. This is wrong.if someone doesn't want to be called by a certainterm - just don't call them by that term. It's respect. Bitch about it is insist you should call them whatever you want because you feel it's ok? Not cool.

First, a working class person cannot afford to pay home delivery fees for groceries and the OP could, ergo she is above working class. A delivery driver makes minimum wage, ergo he is working class. Therefore, the OP is higher class than the delivery driver.

Sorry to burst your high research bubble but I know many of people on benefits that use home delivery. I'm a TA,not exactly racking it in and OH is a builder. We live in a fairly deprived and disadvantaged area, most flats are council rather than owned. You can see home delivery vans daily, albeit no Waitrose. But loads of Asda,Tesco,Morrisons,Iceland.